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[Music]

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explode bizarre your e-ticket ride is

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the world of the paranormal cell field

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as we traverse the universe exploring

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the unexplained UFO s ghosts lost world

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cryptozoology as well as other

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dimensions it's time to take back the

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night the night now you are electrifying

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hosts of exploring the bizarre Timothy

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Wow Tim you know I I'm being dragged

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into another dimension here I I just

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feel like I'm I'm in a parallel universe

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and I'm I'm trying to get back you want

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to extend your hand there and I'll try

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to grab onto it and come back into

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reality

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good evening Tim how are you doing out

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there in Jasper Indiana is it a

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dimension of sight and sound Tim uh well

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I hope so

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wow that's a real weird space to be in

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you know but we're in a real weird space

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tonight and we've got a jam-packed

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program when I say jam-packed I mean

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jam-packed now you know every episode or

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so we talk about

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synchronicity you know my my my my life

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is kind of been made up of synchronous

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one right after another starting at a

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very early age and it continues on in

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fact so much so that we decided to put

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together a book and just by a

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coincidence and I use that word in

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quotes the book is coming out this week

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and the book is titled the matrix

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control system of philip k dick and the

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paranormal synchronicities of timothy

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Beckley now just by again I use

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Quotes coincidence it happened this

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happens to be the weekend of the philip

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k dick science fiction film festival

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being held here for several days I think

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actually four or five days in Manhattan

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it runs from well we'll find out exactly

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because we have the promoter of the

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event with us Daniel Abela

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Daniel are you there yes I'm here

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welcome Daniel you know I just well I

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know you've had the event in the the

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past and I did not attend but my friend

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and associate of mark Brinkerhoff assent

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me I notice of this and I said well this

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is kind of again in quotes strange

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because the festival is the weekend that

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our book that we've been working on so

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hard that's now up to 437 pages is due

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to come out so I said you know I've got

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to get in touch with the festival and

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tell them this and have some one on from

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the the program to discuss this with us

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because we have quite a few listeners in

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the metropolitan New York New Jersey

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Connecticut area who I'm sure will be

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fascinated by this and who probably

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would enjoy attending and and it is very

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much modestly priced what why don't you

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give us a little bit about the history

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are you the the actual organizer oh yes

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I am I'm doing a nicer and confounder of

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the office in existence and and and this

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is your fifth year this is my fifth year

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yes very same throughout who I was

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really thinking this including really

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cool element and what did you why don't

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you tell us a little bit about the

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concept of the of the festival when is

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it going to be held what date is it

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that's coming up and and exactly what

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the concept of the program is well you

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know the the festival runs from May 25th

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all the way to May 30th and we'll be at

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4:00 just

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locations in New York City the Museum of

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the moving image going to be Friday

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night

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Soho playhouses movie Saturday Sunday

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boosters club on Monday and Cervantes

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Institute on Tuesday during this time we

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will be screening over 100 features and

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shorts from all over the world and that

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will have numerous panels as well all

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the non honor of the great yes well you

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know I I was very surprised to see that

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you're having a shock belt at the

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Jacques ballet and Roger Harold food or

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fondly one of the panels that that vet

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is correct there it so happens there was

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a short would accepted into the festival

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I've gone while which is loosely based

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on well it's actually a biopic on Ingo

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Swann which is the first arm not before

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the first psychic ah viewer which was

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commissioned by the military well we

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didn't win us what we knew Ingo Swann

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because he was a member of our New York

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City 14 society that I was on the board

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of directors of in which John keel of

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course I ran so Ingo came to quite a

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number of the the meetings and joined us

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for lunch afterwards he certainly was

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one of the the greatest the you know of

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remote viewers of all time which not the

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recognized as the the best so you're

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bringing people in like Jacques Vallee

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and dr. puno from California and all

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over the country absolutely and I'm very

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very excited

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turnout that uh that was in a way that

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that Ingo Swann you okay did they were

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friends that I did not that I did not

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know her I would have included that in

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the book yeah I should have something

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you know I'd be so locating knew a lot

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of cool people I mean I go into really

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new

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yeah and that was a part of his uh one

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of the real positive attributes what

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well you know there is a are in our book

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a chapter by a branch Steiger now bread

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Steiger course is one of the the great

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literary giants of the paranormal field

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for many many years and and he knew

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philip k dick and and bread contributed

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a chapter in which he reveals probably

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for the first time i think that philip k

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dick believed that he was a star person

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in fact he filled out bread Stigers a

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questionnaire and they had a number i

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understand of a late night a telephone

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calls back and forth discussing ufos and

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things of that matter you know which is

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kind of interesting because most science

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fiction writers seem to be totally

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opposed to anything that's a UFO or

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paranormal you know writing like that

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you have seen that mmm

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well that's what makes Phillip Indyk a

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little bit different from most of them

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is that he as you know he personally had

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an experience which revealed certain

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dimensions and certain areas of reality

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other intrapsychic or interpersonal

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which maps other side finite other

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sci-fi writers never had the privilege

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to so he was very open-minded and I

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really feel that it that sets him apart

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yes and indeed he was a good friend of

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another writer who also claimed to be a

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star person who Robert Anton Wilson

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that's correct

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who and it's all talk about

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synchronicities that period in time in

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1974 bolton and claims to be receiving

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messages from serious in star system

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serious that that's yeah we bring we

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bring that out in the in the book now

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how did you get how did you first get it

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a get involved with philip k a dick I

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mean you seem to be a young fairly young

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man how I mean did you were you a reader

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of science fiction and his books in

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particular

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I didn't you don't wake up one morning

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and suddenly decide well I want to put

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together a festival based on somebody's

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uh well intellectual no you know it's

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actually came about because there were

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two things going on I've always been

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approach to science fiction not just uh

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pure technology but more but human

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components a human condition and I've

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also read it was came across a quote by

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of Ursula Le Guin that compared philip k

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dick to or her lose more hair you know a

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very famous also assigned a writer more

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in magical realism is the minute i saw

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that i said well i got a read about i've

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got a read this guy i mean he sounds

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like yeah our own home-grown Bortas

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that's her quotation and I went ahead

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aside reading actually with later works

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that valus and transmigration of a

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Timothy Archer divine invasion and sorry

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going back literally backwards to his

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earlier stuff so I was hooked

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mainly because the first verse literally

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the very first book I read uh was a

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valise and I at that point I realized I

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can call I was came across someone was

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more of a gnostic philosopher than just

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a a sci-fi writer and I also happen to

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be a filmmaker and I was always been

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very intrigued and always inspired by

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multiple realities and parallel

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universes and and when I read that that

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was one of silicate bases themes it

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occurred to me why not have a festival

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and is honored to have let us have

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sci-fi films but also films that

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incorporate how humans retain their

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humanity before systems that want to rob

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them of their humanity and how you might

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remain dignified

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in a world that wants to take away that

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that sense of and I think the characters

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are just everyday people they're not

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superheroes like what we see in the

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Hollywood adaptations but they're very

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much everyday introverted sometimes

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lonely or sometimes very solitary

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characters who are you know they're

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struggling with the world with this

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strange reality we all live it well

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Daniel I mean have have you yourself

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have you had any you know like

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paranormal experiences or

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synchronicities that have stood out to

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you over the years

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oh well yeah I had a few of them I mean

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they were very odd I mean probably my

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first one it's where anyone I was about

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going back to when I was about maybe

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seven eight coming across the flowered

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which I at that time I look at with

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bleeding it was a bleeding flower maker

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used to be my imagination but uh another

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time I saw a card that had no driver

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resemblance of my parent that was my

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seven eight you so look at crosses limit

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there's no driver the other side but

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then more recently attack

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synchronicities dealing with people that

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are suggested there's another level of

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reality of interconnectedness that

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usually is not

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hasn't been accepted by science by

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conventional science so uh I I can't say

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that I've come across some major

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experiences a UFO or anything of that

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nature but I do see enough uh to uh to

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believe there's there's something out

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there beyond what standard orthodoxy

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explain now you know I mean that was

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always one of Phil's favorite subjects

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you know the matter of reality what is

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reality and is the reality that were

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experiencing the the true reality and so

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I yeah I mean it's a

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and it's especially significant now with

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all the talk that's coming from you know

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a number of philosophers physicists on

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the the possibility that universe at it

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could actually be a simulation so I mean

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it seems like that Phil was way ahead of

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his time on that absol he uh I always

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get a chuckle when I go see the video

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and going before a group of uh a lot of

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journalists and I said in 1977 I believe

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in uh in France and saying we we were

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basically err exist in a

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computer-generated reality and everybody

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just smile and look at each other if I

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wondering what's it what's going on

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there so yeah it was way ahead I mean I

275
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said that uh he was onto something and I

276
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think his experience what he liked to

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refer to as to 374 may have had to do

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with I you know a lot of writers had

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experiences of that nature I mean we

280
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have Robert Anton Wilson we have Whitley

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Strieber over talks about visitation

282
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something happens it could be an

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archetype that's activated or it could

284
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be just crossing the threshold into

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another world and then I'm not sure

286
00:15:07,699 --> 00:15:06,180
something but there are he belongs to a

287
00:15:10,249 --> 00:15:07,709
community of writers of had these

288
00:15:12,559 --> 00:15:10,259
experiences over the years well you know

289
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the shock fellows who's going to be on

290
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your program he has a synchronicity or

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two that we relate in the in the book I

292
00:15:25,610 --> 00:15:22,410
happen to have here Daniel the exact

293
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quote from philip k dick which I figured

294
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that I would read from the that the

295
00:15:34,610 --> 00:15:31,259
festival in France it says people claim

296
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to remember past lives I claim to

297
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remember a different very different

298
00:15:41,809 --> 00:15:39,540
present life I know of nobody who has

299
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:41,819
ever made this claim before but I rather

300
00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:44,610
suspect that my experience is not unique

301
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:47,519
what perhaps is unique is my willingness

302
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:50,399
to talk about it we are living in a

303
00:15:56,090 --> 00:15:53,370
computer programmed reality and the only

304
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:56,100
clue we have to it is when some variable

305
00:16:00,330 --> 00:15:58,800
is changed in some alteration in our

306
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reality occur

307
00:16:07,130 --> 00:16:03,730
and an alternative word world

308
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:07,140
branched off and of course you know

309
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:10,450
charles fort who was the i guess the the

310
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:13,450
grandfather of the paranormal you know

311
00:16:20,940 --> 00:16:17,050
literature who wrote at least four very

312
00:16:22,950 --> 00:16:20,950
human books he talked about how earth is

313
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,960
like a farm and we are somebody's

314
00:16:28,380 --> 00:16:24,880
property and and that's what i've

315
00:16:34,290 --> 00:16:28,390
concluded after dozens and dozens of

316
00:16:37,850 --> 00:16:34,300
synchronicities that there is some other

317
00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:37,860
reality and that this reality does have

318
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:42,310
the ability to kind of alter our

319
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:47,050
thinking and throw in some very strange

320
00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:51,250
and weird events into our lives now what

321
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,310
the meaning of them these

322
00:16:59,100 --> 00:16:55,839
synchronicities oneself are well not

323
00:17:02,130 --> 00:16:59,110
that's open to dispute into a you know a

324
00:17:04,590 --> 00:17:02,140
debate but they certainly do happen in

325
00:17:06,169 --> 00:17:04,600
fact the things that I have you know if

326
00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:06,179
occurred to me over the years are just

327
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:08,920
absolutely incredible and phenomenal I

328
00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:11,170
mean as Tim can attest to since he's

329
00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:13,030
been working on the graphics and and

330
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:16,030
laying out the book for the last month

331
00:17:23,069 --> 00:17:20,650
or so to get it out in time well you

332
00:17:26,910 --> 00:17:23,079
know young used to say that the closer

333
00:17:28,169 --> 00:17:26,920
you work on the depth psychology course

334
00:17:31,919 --> 00:17:28,179
you're working with the archetypes and

335
00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:31,929
more synchronicities begin to emerge so

336
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:34,000
you will surprise them I think that

337
00:17:40,650 --> 00:17:36,940
there are cues of connections there that

338
00:17:45,450 --> 00:17:40,660
are linking people concerned on certain

339
00:17:47,610 --> 00:17:45,460
themes or certain subjects I mean one

340
00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:47,620
question definitely wanna ask Jacque is

341
00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:50,440
back in I would have been just reading a

342
00:17:55,020 --> 00:17:52,630
forbidden science his diary which is

343
00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:55,030
absolutely fascinating it's actually got

344
00:18:00,000 --> 00:17:58,330
of up very personal what you know

345
00:18:02,730 --> 00:18:00,010
someone went through in the 70s is

346
00:18:04,770 --> 00:18:02,740
fascinating become but he talks about

347
00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:04,780
the physics of information ah

348
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:07,720
in fact 19 1977 he says where is

349
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:11,200
different and forty years later where is

350
00:18:14,210 --> 00:18:12,880
the physics of information we still

351
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:14,220
stuck with

352
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:17,130
of space and time but the most likely

353
00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:19,440
mental construct and in fact we might

354
00:18:25,159 --> 00:18:22,470
just live this sea of data and philip k

355
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:25,169
dick when he talks about valid class

356
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:27,690
active living intelligent to information

357
00:18:30,590 --> 00:18:29,730
simple well you know yeah i think it was

358
00:18:33,380 --> 00:18:30,600
on to something

359
00:18:35,899 --> 00:18:33,390
i think it is just data we retrieve the

360
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:35,909
data continues filters that seems to be

361
00:18:44,210 --> 00:18:41,090
a much better model for a lot of

362
00:18:48,010 --> 00:18:44,220
nonlinear phenomena paranormal under

363
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:48,020
standard space-time you know models

364
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:51,600
now I understand that's one of the films

365
00:18:59,840 --> 00:18:57,840
that you're previewing is gods among us

366
00:19:03,399 --> 00:18:59,850
can you tell us a little bit about the

367
00:19:09,860 --> 00:19:03,409
odd yeah gossamer life is directed by

368
00:19:13,399 --> 00:19:09,870
Carolyn Corey and she's uh a she's a

369
00:19:15,490 --> 00:19:13,409
master scientific evidence you know out

370
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:15,500
that suggests that they are already

371
00:19:20,299 --> 00:19:18,480
amongst us ETS they're basically

372
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:20,309
extraterrestrial some live amongst us

373
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:25,730
and she actually will have a we have a

374
00:19:31,310 --> 00:19:28,559
scientist an astrophysicist name is Rudy

375
00:19:34,730 --> 00:19:31,320
child and he was a good friend of John

376
00:19:37,279 --> 00:19:34,740
Mac he will be part of the panel mark

377
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:37,289
also be on may be will be also resided

378
00:19:46,580 --> 00:19:41,130
in the panel Bergen off and we have a

379
00:19:49,930 --> 00:19:46,590
few uh experiencers talking about the

380
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:49,940
UFO phenomenon and the experience of

381
00:19:56,750 --> 00:19:54,210
interacting with these beings I think

382
00:19:59,840 --> 00:19:56,760
most people I think what if they walk

383
00:20:02,990 --> 00:19:59,850
around major cities they come across

384
00:20:05,330 --> 00:20:03,000
others who don't seem real it'll be some

385
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:05,340
odd something very alien about it not

386
00:20:12,409 --> 00:20:08,610
just whole but alien and maybe these are

387
00:20:15,919 --> 00:20:12,419
some of the BT that are referring to but

388
00:20:17,690 --> 00:20:15,929
certainly uh um dr. Jacobson Temple

389
00:20:19,549 --> 00:20:17,700
University sister think so as well all

390
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:19,559
all his distant committees but they're

391
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:23,690
many of them are very malignant and uh

392
00:20:27,919 --> 00:20:27,120
some that something very negative and by

393
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:27,929
now we're

394
00:20:33,259 --> 00:20:29,490
in the case of cattle and she believes

395
00:20:35,749 --> 00:20:33,269
they're all basically good ets what you

396
00:20:41,659 --> 00:20:35,759
know in the in the in our of the book we

397
00:20:44,210 --> 00:20:41,669
talk about the June 24 June 24th at

398
00:20:46,909 --> 00:20:44,220
Jenks where all these UFO researchers

399
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:46,919
have passed away on the anniversary of

400
00:20:54,109 --> 00:20:50,730
Kenneth Arnold's you know UFO sighting

401
00:20:56,149 --> 00:20:54,119
over Mount Rainier which there are a lot

402
00:20:57,409 --> 00:20:56,159
of synchronicities like this - they're

403
00:21:01,519 --> 00:20:57,419
not necessarily good they're not

404
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:01,529
necessarily a bad they just happen I

405
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:03,809
mean well we could get into that it's a

406
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:06,210
longer discussion but basically how can

407
00:21:11,149 --> 00:21:08,610
people get to the Internet and find out

408
00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:11,159
about your program and give us a

409
00:21:16,399 --> 00:21:13,350
telephone number in a web you know web

410
00:21:18,859 --> 00:21:16,409
address at all sure surely so the

411
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:18,869
website is the philip k dick film

412
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:22,830
festival the philip k dick film festival

413
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,610
calm um and that's the most direct way

414
00:21:34,580 --> 00:21:31,679
of reaching us if they have any

415
00:21:38,419 --> 00:21:34,590
questions they can email us at info at

416
00:21:41,649 --> 00:21:38,429
the philip erikson festival and and when

417
00:21:43,759 --> 00:21:41,659
it is a shock valley and dr. put off a

418
00:21:46,399 --> 00:21:43,769
schedule to speak because I'm sure that

419
00:21:50,379 --> 00:21:46,409
so Sean is going to be coming in yes

420
00:21:53,210 --> 00:21:50,389
he's gotta come in on right after the

421
00:21:54,409 --> 00:21:53,220
documentary so that's a Saturday at

422
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:54,419
three o'clock

423
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:57,600
there'll be we'll run a panel for about

424
00:22:01,100 --> 00:21:59,039
two hours will show the short

425
00:22:06,169 --> 00:22:01,110
documentary and then the panel that

426
00:22:08,830 --> 00:22:06,179
includes a output of ten McNear which

427
00:22:12,889 --> 00:22:08,840
was the first remote viewer there was a

428
00:22:15,470 --> 00:22:12,899
guest taught by Ingo Swann yeah the

429
00:22:18,379 --> 00:22:15,480
director who also was a good friend of

430
00:22:20,810 --> 00:22:18,389
Ingo Swann and also the documentary

431
00:22:24,739 --> 00:22:20,820
Marianne comentary the documentary is on

432
00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:24,749
Ingo Swann is on Ingo Swann so when is

433
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:26,940
that going to be three to five I also

434
00:22:34,039 --> 00:22:31,919
want to mention too that uh one o'clock

435
00:22:39,019 --> 00:22:34,049
we have a silikal how to build a time

436
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:39,029
machine and that's a base upon the works

437
00:22:46,060 --> 00:22:42,400
of two gentlemen whose lives were

438
00:22:48,909 --> 00:22:46,070
all stirred or shaped by HG Wells's the

439
00:22:51,310 --> 00:22:48,919
time machine one of them is dr. dr.

440
00:22:54,460 --> 00:22:51,320
Ronald Mallett was currently working on

441
00:22:58,659 --> 00:22:54,470
his that theory of of sending binary

442
00:23:02,380 --> 00:22:58,669
signals back in time he'll be there and

443
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:02,390
also a Robert no she who is the after

444
00:23:08,769 --> 00:23:04,570
reading the HG Wells's Time Machine

445
00:23:10,779 --> 00:23:08,779
decided to devote their twenty years of

446
00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:10,789
his life to building a replica of that

447
00:23:15,070 --> 00:23:13,070
Wow well you know this sounds like an

448
00:23:18,220 --> 00:23:15,080
event as it sounds like an event and a

449
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:18,230
half and I I will be a down there at

450
00:23:22,570 --> 00:23:20,330
some point and I wish you well and I

451
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:22,580
hope you get the the word out to many

452
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:25,370
many people because I know they're a

453
00:23:30,250 --> 00:23:28,490
heck of a lot of philip k dick fans and

454
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:30,260
people who are into this would be

455
00:23:33,970 --> 00:23:32,809
interested in the program and daniel i

456
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:33,980
want to thank you for coming on and

457
00:23:39,549 --> 00:23:36,770
telling our listeners about your

458
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:39,559
festival coming up thank you for having

459
00:23:43,060 --> 00:23:41,510
me and yeah yeah i will follow you

460
00:23:45,159 --> 00:23:43,070
you're welcome you're very welcome

461
00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:45,169
and I look forward to meeting you and

462
00:23:49,930 --> 00:23:47,840
you bet yeah and I think we have I think

463
00:23:52,810 --> 00:23:49,940
we have a break just coming up here in

464
00:23:55,149 --> 00:23:52,820
just a second a great head and then we

465
00:23:59,860 --> 00:23:55,159
will be back with our other two guests

466
00:24:03,340 --> 00:23:59,870
of the evening and this is a bit of work

467
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:03,350
good conversation okay great

468
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:06,049
all right we'll talk to you later thank

469
00:24:11,169 --> 00:24:08,690
you yeah our thanks and we'll see your

470
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:11,179
clattering okay that job tonight Emily

471
00:24:16,389 --> 00:24:12,710
well there we go

472
00:24:19,899 --> 00:24:16,399
the Phillips allocated Film Festival now

473
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:19,909
back to exploring the bizarre with two

474
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:22,250
of the most electrifying researchers in

475
00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:22,890
apparel

476
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:26,670
your hostess Timothy Beckley and since

477
00:24:33,820 --> 00:24:31,440
wars welcome back to exploring the

478
00:24:37,670 --> 00:24:33,830
bazaar right here on the mighty Casey

479
00:24:40,610 --> 00:24:37,680
our digital radio network and Tim why

480
00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:40,620
don't we bring in our other guests

481
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:43,760
tonight we have with us Nick Redfern and

482
00:24:50,260 --> 00:24:47,130
nomar athletic now next going to be

483
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:50,270
talking about his most recent book

484
00:24:57,980 --> 00:24:54,000
Roswell UFO conspiracy exposing a

485
00:25:00,200 --> 00:24:57,990
shocking and sinister secret and Nomar

486
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:00,210
has has a couple of books that he's

487
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:02,370
going to be talking about UFOs over

488
00:25:08,510 --> 00:25:05,010
Maine Close Encounters from the Pine

489
00:25:13,790 --> 00:25:08,520
Tree State and also otherworldly

490
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:13,800
encounters UFOs over Maine volume 2

491
00:25:17,540 --> 00:25:16,530
so gentlemen welcome to exploring the

492
00:25:18,140 --> 00:25:17,550
bizarre happy to have you with us

493
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:18,150
tonight

494
00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:23,810
thank you guys well you know this is UFO

495
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:27,960
month on exploring the bizarre we're

496
00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:31,890
having four solid weeks of the boys from

497
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:36,360
topside and of course UFOs are kind of

498
00:25:40,130 --> 00:25:37,650
our favorite the

499
00:25:42,110 --> 00:25:40,140
subject although we don't try it we

500
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:42,120
don't go out of her way to discriminate

501
00:25:48,860 --> 00:25:44,850
against the paranormal and ghosts and

502
00:25:52,070 --> 00:25:48,870
poltergeists and all these other strange

503
00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:52,080
topics that delight and titillate

504
00:26:00,200 --> 00:25:56,700
ourselves in our audience but you know I

505
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:00,210
guess Nick you're familiar and certainly

506
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:03,930
a Shawn Castillo brought this out in the

507
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:08,730
the our book the matrix control system

508
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:11,490
of philip k dick about the many people

509
00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:15,930
in the in the the UFO field who seem to

510
00:26:23,540 --> 00:26:20,430
have a great number of synchronicities

511
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:23,550
and coincidences in their lives and in

512
00:26:30,530 --> 00:26:26,970
their career in fact as Sean does a very

513
00:26:34,190 --> 00:26:30,540
detailed review of Raymond Fowler's a

514
00:26:36,770 --> 00:26:34,200
book on the synchronicities and UFOs

515
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:36,780
have you found this to be the case or

516
00:26:40,610 --> 00:26:38,850
have you had any personal experiences

517
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:40,620
along this line I I know you have a

518
00:26:45,770 --> 00:26:43,530
chapter in the in the book so why don't

519
00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:45,780
you do that you know just again hop into

520
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:47,310
this topic and then we'll get into

521
00:26:52,940 --> 00:26:49,490
Roswell in a few minutes

522
00:26:55,340 --> 00:26:52,950
well yeah I've had a lot of too many to

523
00:26:57,730 --> 00:26:55,350
count against over here synchronicities

524
00:27:00,140 --> 00:26:57,740
and some of them you know sort of really

525
00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:00,150
kind of bizarre just you know

526
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:02,910
unbelievably bizarre and I always tell

527
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:04,650
people that you know honestly I don't

528
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:06,770
know what it is that causes

529
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:08,370
synchronicities you know what the

530
00:27:13,820 --> 00:27:10,770
intelligence is that makes these things

531
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:13,830
happen but I always tell people never to

532
00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:17,310
ignore them because you know it's not

533
00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:18,870
like something that's being forced on

534
00:27:23,810 --> 00:27:21,270
you it's kind of like if you follow the

535
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:23,820
trail of the synchronicity you know it

536
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:26,850
may lead to help you the work you do and

537
00:27:30,830 --> 00:27:28,880
I found that a number of times where

538
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:30,840
synchronicities has occurred actually

539
00:27:33,950 --> 00:27:32,370
helps you know come through the book

540
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:33,960
that I'm working on that kind of thing

541
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:36,900
so I think synchronicities are kind of

542
00:27:41,570 --> 00:27:39,510
directed at us but it's up to us whether

543
00:27:43,340 --> 00:27:41,580
we actually follow up on the

544
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:43,350
synchronicity and see what it means or

545
00:27:48,550 --> 00:27:45,810
people dismiss it I mean to give me a

546
00:27:51,290 --> 00:27:48,560
good example I'm writing a new book now

547
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:51,300
which comes out in February next year

548
00:27:58,130 --> 00:27:55,490
all about the Slender Man mystery and in

549
00:28:01,220 --> 00:27:58,140
just over the course of right in that

550
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:01,230
book I've had so many weird 11:11

551
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:04,650
synchronicities happen at the time I

552
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:06,090
write the book and I just thought you

553
00:28:10,910 --> 00:28:07,650
know I'm working on it having to look

554
00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:10,920
round to 11:11 or you know message will

555
00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:13,740
come through my cell phone 11:11 and it

556
00:28:19,370 --> 00:28:16,440
happened so much particularly with this

557
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:19,380
with this book so you know again the

558
00:28:25,340 --> 00:28:21,840
whole 11:11 thing and synchronicities is

559
00:28:29,390 --> 00:28:25,350
you know an entire you know for nothing

560
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:29,400
and all on its own but you know 11:11 I

561
00:28:33,580 --> 00:28:31,440
get no end of those and it's not like a

562
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:33,590
case of looking for them

563
00:28:38,450 --> 00:28:35,850
you know the skeptics might think it's

564
00:28:42,530 --> 00:28:38,460
just they happen well you're just not

565
00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:42,540
thinking about it and and they occur but

566
00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:45,000
I've had a lot also in relation to the

567
00:28:50,730 --> 00:28:47,710
the contactee movements

568
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:50,740
over the years I'll give you one sort of

569
00:28:55,980 --> 00:28:54,310
weird example years ago this is about

570
00:28:57,390 --> 00:28:55,990
seven or eight years ago I was writing

571
00:29:01,920 --> 00:28:57,400
an article it was on a Sunday morning

572
00:29:04,770 --> 00:29:01,930
about Truman bathroom and his contact he

573
00:29:06,510 --> 00:29:04,780
experienced with this hot-looking space

574
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:06,520
woman named Oliver Ames

575
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:08,530
oh yeah and she was deposed yes she was

576
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:10,480
supposedly from this planet called

577
00:29:18,060 --> 00:29:14,050
clarion well it so happens that just

578
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:18,070
purely down to coincidence like about an

579
00:29:22,530 --> 00:29:20,410
hour and a half after writing this

580
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:22,540
article actually came across an old book

581
00:29:26,250 --> 00:29:24,490
which had the word clarion on the title

582
00:29:32,010 --> 00:29:26,260
of the book nothing to do with UFOs who

583
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:32,020
was actually an early 1980s school you

584
00:29:36,090 --> 00:29:34,210
know graduation book and you had the

585
00:29:39,930 --> 00:29:36,100
word be the printer on the front was

586
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:39,940
clarion and as I get I mean people think

587
00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:41,410
well let's just you know that's a

588
00:29:46,830 --> 00:29:43,510
coincidence but I get so many like that

589
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:46,840
to the point where it just becomes a

590
00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:48,310
little ridiculous because that kind of

591
00:29:52,620 --> 00:29:50,110
sounds like a criticism it's not but he

592
00:29:54,930 --> 00:29:52,630
just makes me realize that you know when

593
00:29:56,970 --> 00:29:54,940
you're talking about you know the matrix

594
00:30:00,600 --> 00:29:56,980
and things like that it makes me realize

595
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:00,610
that whatever reality is we're not

596
00:30:06,150 --> 00:30:03,490
seeing full reality we get glimpses of

597
00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:06,160
the weirder side of reality but thus far

598
00:30:11,910 --> 00:30:08,710
more going on than we can sort of you

599
00:30:14,370 --> 00:30:11,920
know comprehend or understand right now

600
00:30:18,210 --> 00:30:14,380
and I think synchronicities are a part

601
00:30:20,490 --> 00:30:18,220
of whatever that matrix is that is kind

602
00:30:22,980 --> 00:30:20,500
of I would say programming us in a

603
00:30:25,970 --> 00:30:22,990
sinister way but like I said giving us

604
00:30:28,890 --> 00:30:25,980
the choice to follow some kind of

605
00:30:32,610 --> 00:30:28,900
unreality you know if we choose to do it

606
00:30:36,090 --> 00:30:32,620
well you know some of the Utah some of

607
00:30:38,250 --> 00:30:36,100
the synchronicities are positive some of

608
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:38,260
them like the you know the the deaths of

609
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:41,200
the UFO researchers on June 24th one

610
00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:43,690
would think of in a negative way but the

611
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:45,910
strange thing there about that date of

612
00:30:52,530 --> 00:30:49,330
course it is the anniversary of Kenneth

613
00:30:54,780 --> 00:30:52,540
Arnold's UFO sighting over at Mount

614
00:30:58,110 --> 00:30:54,790
Rainier which is kind of the beginning

615
00:31:00,660 --> 00:30:58,120
of the modern flying saucer era but the

616
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:00,670
synchronicity here isn't just the fact

617
00:31:03,630 --> 00:31:01,570
that

618
00:31:06,930 --> 00:31:03,640
over a dozen UFO researchers have passed

619
00:31:09,690 --> 00:31:06,940
away on that particular date but the

620
00:31:11,910 --> 00:31:09,700
fact that Kenneth Arnold did not believe

621
00:31:14,490 --> 00:31:11,920
that you have the UFOs that he saw and

622
00:31:16,170 --> 00:31:14,500
he had at least a dozen if not more

623
00:31:18,780 --> 00:31:16,180
sightings over the years most people

624
00:31:19,950 --> 00:31:18,790
don't realize that he did not believe

625
00:31:22,770 --> 00:31:19,960
that they were an extraterrestrial

626
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:22,780
origin he thought that they were some

627
00:31:29,370 --> 00:31:26,650
kind of craft that came to pick up the

628
00:31:33,450 --> 00:31:29,380
the spirits or souls of the deceased and

629
00:31:36,060 --> 00:31:33,460
take them over to some other realm so if

630
00:31:38,190 --> 00:31:36,070
that doesn't Cayenne or if that isn't

631
00:31:41,910 --> 00:31:38,200
part of some overall synchronicity there

632
00:31:45,060 --> 00:31:41,920
with the June 24th date I don't know you

633
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:45,070
know what is but you know in our book

634
00:31:51,210 --> 00:31:47,890
UFO repeaters we talk about people who

635
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:51,220
have had you know UFO sightings and the

636
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:53,050
ability to go out at night or in the

637
00:31:57,660 --> 00:31:55,450
daytime and repeatedly take photographs

638
00:32:01,530 --> 00:31:57,670
of strange objects in the sky but there

639
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:01,540
also seem to be synchronicity in UFO as

640
00:32:06,690 --> 00:32:04,390
synchronicity repeaters like I have

641
00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:06,700
enough to fill what 80 or 100 pages in

642
00:32:11,370 --> 00:32:09,340
the book at the Tim because he's laid

643
00:32:12,540 --> 00:32:11,380
out and there's a yeah at least and and

644
00:32:14,430 --> 00:32:12,550
we're not just talking about the

645
00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:14,440
telephone rings and somebody that I was

646
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:17,110
thinking about the day before or

647
00:32:21,050 --> 00:32:18,490
something I mean we're talking about

648
00:32:23,370 --> 00:32:21,060
very strange and very complex

649
00:32:26,430 --> 00:32:23,380
synchronicities like the weekend that I

650
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:26,440
spent with the librarian from April

651
00:32:30,210 --> 00:32:28,330
which occurred which of course in the

652
00:32:32,550 --> 00:32:30,220
area phenomenal research organization

653
00:32:34,860 --> 00:32:32,560
and Tucson which has been defunct now

654
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:34,870
for over 20 years and I go with my

655
00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:37,330
friend is Charla we drive down to Sedona

656
00:32:42,150 --> 00:32:39,670
and we stop in to have a brunch at this

657
00:32:44,220 --> 00:32:42,160
a a place called the coffeepot where you

658
00:32:45,870 --> 00:32:44,230
can get a hundred and three kinds of

659
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:45,880
omelets and on the way out the door

660
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:48,490
there's a car park next to us in the

661
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:50,890
parking lot of the coffee shop with the

662
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:54,450
license plate a pro on it in big bold

663
00:32:59,640 --> 00:32:57,610
letters now how is that possible I mean

664
00:33:02,460 --> 00:32:59,650
the organization has been defunct and

665
00:33:05,550 --> 00:33:02,470
but let's say for example there is a you

666
00:33:08,250 --> 00:33:05,560
know a fan of a pro out there somewhere

667
00:33:10,790 --> 00:33:08,260
and it would pay to have you know

668
00:33:13,260 --> 00:33:10,800
license plates made up with that

669
00:33:15,300 --> 00:33:13,270
spelling on there but why would it be

670
00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:15,310
parked next to our car

671
00:33:19,530 --> 00:33:17,350
I mean nobody knew where we were going

672
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:19,540
to be it's just like what I mean like

673
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:22,450
the things that happen or just beyond

674
00:33:28,530 --> 00:33:25,600
the realm of possibility it's like

675
00:33:31,290 --> 00:33:28,540
winning the lottery over and over again

676
00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:31,300
so there there you go I mean the whole

677
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:32,350
program so that isn't about

678
00:33:36,330 --> 00:33:35,170
synchronicities but I certainly was

679
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:36,340
thrilled to hear about this really

680
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:38,710
interesting area radio interesting area

681
00:33:45,180 --> 00:33:41,410
because the interesting thing is it's

682
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:45,190
not like it's just directed at ufology I

683
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:48,130
mean I get it in relation to men in

684
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:51,490
black stuff cryptozoology you know so

685
00:33:56,790 --> 00:33:54,370
it's like you know it actually covers

686
00:33:59,400 --> 00:33:56,800
the spectrum of the paranormal that's

687
00:34:00,990 --> 00:33:59,410
just you know UFOs that kind of suggests

688
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:01,000
that whatever the phenomenon is it's

689
00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:04,330
sort of you know he covers the it well

690
00:34:07,620 --> 00:34:05,830
covers the entire range of the

691
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:07,630
paranormal which makes me wonder you

692
00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:10,480
know perhaps we should be looking at the

693
00:34:14,340 --> 00:34:12,639
origins of the UFO phenomena itself in

694
00:34:16,649 --> 00:34:14,350
you know in different angles rather than

695
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:16,659
just the kind of tide and bit worn out

696
00:34:23,340 --> 00:34:19,450
angle of not some old spacecraft I

697
00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:23,350
indeed hey no more are you up in Maine

698
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:26,470
is that we reside yes I'm not in Bangor

699
00:34:31,770 --> 00:34:29,679
ah now I have have you come across any

700
00:34:34,490 --> 00:34:31,780
weird synchronicities or anything that

701
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:34,500
would tie in with this yeah I

702
00:34:40,970 --> 00:34:36,850
interviewed a woman from Stratton Maine

703
00:34:46,260 --> 00:34:40,980
she had a series of missing type events

704
00:34:49,050 --> 00:34:46,270
into a UFO sighting and she started

705
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:49,060
having dreams after these UFO sightings

706
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:52,330
and in her dreams she was on a spaceship

707
00:34:54,210 --> 00:34:53,770
with just her husband there was nobody

708
00:34:56,669 --> 00:34:54,220
else

709
00:34:59,010 --> 00:34:56,679
everything was in white and every time

710
00:35:02,100 --> 00:34:59,020
when her husband opened up his mouth to

711
00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:02,110
speak a song by Pink Floyd would come

712
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:05,230
out of his mouth I believe okay

713
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:07,930
overdrive I think was the name of it and

714
00:35:12,030 --> 00:35:10,000
she thought that was so odd so the

715
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:12,040
morning that she was driving over to

716
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:15,010
meet us that song was playing on the

717
00:35:18,690 --> 00:35:16,930
radio and you know the synchronicity was

718
00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:18,700
not lost on her and certainly not us you

719
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:21,910
know that's a song that then it doesn't

720
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:24,310
get a lot of regular airplay on the

721
00:35:28,170 --> 00:35:27,280
radio though clung on to it is it is

722
00:35:30,210 --> 00:35:28,180
yeah so that would

723
00:35:37,170 --> 00:35:30,220
be unusual to hear that one just of that

724
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:37,180
place and time now how did you begin

725
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:40,720
your investigation of UFOs this the book

726
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:43,440
that you've done here a UFOs over Maine

727
00:35:48,180 --> 00:35:46,000
Close Encounters on the Pine Tree State

728
00:35:50,910 --> 00:35:48,190
is not really the first book that you

729
00:35:54,270 --> 00:35:50,920
that you've done but how did you make

730
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:54,280
the giant leap from normality into the

731
00:35:59,370 --> 00:35:57,490
world of ufology oh good question

732
00:36:00,900 --> 00:35:59,380
first of all I want to say thanks so

733
00:36:03,089 --> 00:36:00,910
much for having me on the show oh you're

734
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:03,099
welcome and what an honor it is that

735
00:36:08,849 --> 00:36:05,050
Nick Nick Redfern here so hi Nick how

736
00:36:09,390 --> 00:36:08,859
you doing buddy oh thanks thank God but

737
00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:09,400
guys

738
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:12,790
to be honest I'm I'm a nobody I'm just a

739
00:36:17,579 --> 00:36:15,250
regular guy I have a family I have a

740
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:17,589
girl that I adore as the day is long

741
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:20,290
Evon 11 year old son who is amazing I'm

742
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:22,210
obsessed with old-school hip hop and

743
00:36:26,910 --> 00:36:24,730
iced coffees the three of your names

744
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:26,920
kind of sound like a hip hop beat to me

745
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:32,530
like a champion okay okay but I am

746
00:36:37,710 --> 00:36:35,680
utterly fascinated with UFOs alien

747
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:37,720
abduction men a black Mothman Bigfoot on

748
00:36:42,750 --> 00:36:40,720
and on and on and as a child I was maybe

749
00:36:44,490 --> 00:36:42,760
five years old could been four could

750
00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:44,500
have been six and honestly if I'm

751
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:47,470
wavering in what the age was then who

752
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:48,970
knows how good my memory is on what I

753
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:51,609
actually saw but because I cannot play

754
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:55,170
it back in my adult mind but what I saw

755
00:37:00,599 --> 00:36:57,970
as a child was like a lightning bolt

756
00:37:02,910 --> 00:37:00,609
stuck in the clouds I had woken up due

757
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:02,920
to the sound of thunder I set up in my

758
00:37:09,390 --> 00:37:06,640
bed my house a bedroom window faced the

759
00:37:15,390 --> 00:37:09,400
st. John River stone's throw from

760
00:37:16,770 --> 00:37:15,400
Connecticut and I saw Thunderbolts sorry

761
00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:16,780
lightning bolt stuck in the clouds and

762
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:18,430
there was electricity coming off it and

763
00:37:22,260 --> 00:37:20,770
it was glowing and when I woke up in the

764
00:37:23,789 --> 00:37:22,270
morning I fell back asleep not really

765
00:37:25,140 --> 00:37:23,799
sure what happened I just kind of fell

766
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:25,150
back to sleep woke up in the morning and

767
00:37:30,089 --> 00:37:27,690
still there I went to show my dad and

768
00:37:32,099 --> 00:37:30,099
and it was gone by the time I brought

769
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:32,109
him up to my room to show me and I don't

770
00:37:34,980 --> 00:37:33,250
know why I didn't just bring him outside

771
00:37:37,830 --> 00:37:34,990
to look at it but

772
00:37:41,220 --> 00:37:37,840
uh but it was gone and then a few months

773
00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:41,230
later that was followed by the by me

774
00:37:44,609 --> 00:37:43,150
witnessing the aurora borealis or the

775
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:44,619
Northern Lights as we call it in Maine

776
00:37:49,230 --> 00:37:47,410
and I'm sure other places but those two

777
00:37:52,109 --> 00:37:49,240
events taught me something at a very

778
00:37:54,450 --> 00:37:52,119
young age and it is that our world is

779
00:37:56,850 --> 00:37:54,460
much bigger and much more odd than I

780
00:37:58,890 --> 00:37:56,860
knew it before those events and it just

781
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:58,900
weighed heavily on my young mind and

782
00:38:03,450 --> 00:38:00,640
then I heard about the Allagash

783
00:38:06,359 --> 00:38:03,460
abductions which took place in Maine and

784
00:38:10,590 --> 00:38:06,369
ever since then my eyes have been to the

785
00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:10,600
sky and reading everything I could on on

786
00:38:16,620 --> 00:38:14,320
UFOs there's only been a few books

787
00:38:19,980 --> 00:38:16,630
published from Maine authors that do

788
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:19,990
mention UFOs but it they not solely

789
00:38:27,930 --> 00:38:24,640
dedicated to UFOs and with my obsession

790
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:27,940
I figured I would want to write that

791
00:38:32,190 --> 00:38:29,650
book so I did that with UFOs over Maine

792
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:32,200
volume 1 and and I just wrapped up

793
00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:35,530
volume 2 and there's there's a lot of

794
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:38,260
weird stuff that happens here guide yeah

795
00:38:46,980 --> 00:38:44,410
I think a Tim Beckley set made what was

796
00:38:50,370 --> 00:38:46,990
it - like MUFON said that Maine is like

797
00:38:52,590 --> 00:38:50,380
a serie of the third state the third

798
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:52,600
stage yeah third I think it said right

799
00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:55,650
yeah did you realize that no mark

800
00:39:01,230 --> 00:38:58,450
actually I did so I brought it up -

801
00:39:04,830 --> 00:39:01,240
Valerie Schultz Valerie Schultz's now

802
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:04,840
the MUFON State Director for me John

803
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:06,730
venturi has stepped down and what's

804
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:08,050
coming on with venturi anyways if you

805
00:39:13,950 --> 00:39:10,510
guys heard about all that stuff no no no

806
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:13,960
tell us yes okay um he made a lot of

807
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:16,690
racist comments on the skytypers I think

808
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:22,210
it doesn't yeah yeah and I guess Jan or

809
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:23,920
yon I'm not sure how he pronounces his

810
00:39:27,270 --> 00:39:25,170
name but you know they had a MUFON

811
00:39:29,490 --> 00:39:27,280
finally released a statement about it

812
00:39:32,820 --> 00:39:29,500
today which was kind of lame in my

813
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:32,830
opinion but but interesting stuff

814
00:39:36,270 --> 00:39:35,170
anyways Valerie Schultz is now the state

815
00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:36,280
director of Maine and New Hampshire

816
00:39:43,380 --> 00:39:39,790
actually and we saw this you know come

817
00:39:46,380 --> 00:39:43,390
out so we looked at it and

818
00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:46,390
she went through the database and she

819
00:39:49,980 --> 00:39:48,250
was seeing that I call she can't really

820
00:39:52,970 --> 00:39:49,990
say that the the sightings have

821
00:39:55,110 --> 00:39:52,980
increased what we're finding actually

822
00:39:56,580 --> 00:39:55,120
specifically for Maine anyways I can't

823
00:39:58,920 --> 00:39:56,590
speak for the other states but

824
00:40:01,290 --> 00:39:58,930
specifically for Maine a lot of the

825
00:40:03,390 --> 00:40:01,300
reports if you dig into them are reports

826
00:40:06,750 --> 00:40:03,400
from the 60s and 70s that people are

827
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:06,760
reporting now for example the 1964

828
00:40:10,770 --> 00:40:08,530
lowering Air Force Base encounter which

829
00:40:14,190 --> 00:40:10,780
is not talked about mostly the 1975

830
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:14,200
encounter that was reported in 2006 and

831
00:40:17,220 --> 00:40:15,610
a lot of people you know didn't want to

832
00:40:19,830 --> 00:40:17,230
be ridiculed at that time so a lot of

833
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:19,840
these you know people in their 60s 70s

834
00:40:23,730 --> 00:40:21,850
80s are now reporting we have a great

835
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:23,740
report from Dow Air Force Base which is

836
00:40:30,750 --> 00:40:26,710
right up here in Bangor and that

837
00:40:33,060 --> 00:40:30,760
gentleman did report that until 2060 you

838
00:40:35,730 --> 00:40:33,070
know so it might look like an increase

839
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:35,740
in sightings but it's an increase in

840
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:38,410
people reporting if you will but but I

841
00:40:44,700 --> 00:40:40,090
don't think there's any more lights in

842
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:44,710
the sky than perhaps well tell us about

843
00:40:51,450 --> 00:40:48,450
the the earlier Lauren Air Force Base

844
00:40:55,770 --> 00:40:51,460
incident I'm not sure I'm familiar with

845
00:41:00,060 --> 00:40:55,780
that one yeah in 1964 there was a

846
00:41:02,130 --> 00:41:00,070
gentleman who was an air policeman and

847
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:02,140
he was you know working duty on the base

848
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:04,930
and he was close to the runway and he

849
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:09,730
saw a UFO hovering just about five feet

850
00:41:13,980 --> 00:41:12,400
above the runway and there was no lights

851
00:41:17,010 --> 00:41:13,990
on it was completely black so it was

852
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:17,020
kind of like black on black and which is

853
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:19,090
very similar to the 1975 encounter that

854
00:41:22,650 --> 00:41:20,890
UFO also hovered over the base but the

855
00:41:24,510 --> 00:41:22,660
lights work sorry over the runway but

856
00:41:27,930 --> 00:41:24,520
the lights were on it was about three

857
00:41:30,020 --> 00:41:27,940
feet above the the runway and as he's

858
00:41:32,670 --> 00:41:30,030
watching it he sees a service truck

859
00:41:35,910 --> 00:41:32,680
start heading down the runway towards it

860
00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:35,920
and that type of truck is typically used

861
00:41:40,290 --> 00:41:38,020
for guiding flight paths for the the

862
00:41:43,620 --> 00:41:40,300
planes that are you know going about to

863
00:41:45,300 --> 00:41:43,630
take off on base and so it wasn't you

864
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:45,310
know the military police jeeps that he's

865
00:41:48,180 --> 00:41:46,330
used to seeing so we thought it was

866
00:41:49,590 --> 00:41:48,190
weird that it was a truck going there so

867
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:49,600
he was looking at the truck he looks

868
00:41:55,350 --> 00:41:53,890
back to the UFO and it's gone so he

869
00:41:57,180 --> 00:41:55,360
starts walking towards where he saw the

870
00:41:59,250 --> 00:41:57,190
UFO he sees another air police

871
00:42:01,529 --> 00:41:59,260
and asked if he saw it as well he said

872
00:42:05,279 --> 00:42:01,539
he did he was even closer and he said

873
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:05,289
that the UFO had a lot of flat panels on

874
00:42:11,700 --> 00:42:09,520
it and you know at different angles and

875
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:11,710
it we had a matte finish to it and it

876
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:13,839
took off at such speed that it kind of

877
00:42:19,770 --> 00:42:16,690
blurred out of existence is how that

878
00:42:21,450 --> 00:42:19,780
gentleman described it and then there's

879
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:21,460
there was a few months later that same

880
00:42:26,460 --> 00:42:24,010
year I believe it was December 64 there

881
00:42:29,210 --> 00:42:26,470
was another airman air policeman who was

882
00:42:32,579 --> 00:42:29,220
on patrol he was by the the bomber area

883
00:42:35,460 --> 00:42:32,589
which were armed with nuclear weapons at

884
00:42:37,289 --> 00:42:35,470
the time and he in doing his patrol and

885
00:42:41,010 --> 00:42:37,299
you know it's the middle of the night

886
00:42:43,890 --> 00:42:41,020
and he sees shadows walking amongst the

887
00:42:46,589 --> 00:42:43,900
snow banks which are behind the b-52

888
00:42:48,270 --> 00:42:46,599
bombers and so he sees those and he

889
00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:48,280
actually fires off a warning shot and

890
00:42:54,270 --> 00:42:51,369
tells whoever it is to come out once

891
00:42:57,390 --> 00:42:54,280
everything kind of goes silent they step

892
00:43:00,839 --> 00:42:57,400
out into the moonlight and he fires at

893
00:43:03,180 --> 00:43:00,849
them and as soon as he fires at them

894
00:43:05,849 --> 00:43:03,190
they vanish according to him and then

895
00:43:09,269 --> 00:43:05,859
the base comes to life the lights come

896
00:43:14,039 --> 00:43:09,279
on more air policemen come and they

897
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:14,049
apprehend that Airmen for firing live

898
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:16,240
rounds so close to nuclear weapons

899
00:43:20,970 --> 00:43:18,460
he tried explaining why he did it but

900
00:43:24,990 --> 00:43:20,980
they wouldn't listen to him so he was

901
00:43:27,180 --> 00:43:25,000
relieved of duty and he was a you know

902
00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:27,190
he was kind of a joke of the base you

903
00:43:30,660 --> 00:43:28,660
know for like the next year you know the

904
00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:30,670
guy who shot that little green men and

905
00:43:35,490 --> 00:43:32,529
when he was asked about it a couple a

906
00:43:38,190 --> 00:43:35,500
few months after he was relieved of duty

907
00:43:40,109 --> 00:43:38,200
he said they were gray they're not green

908
00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:40,119
you know so we still sticking to his

909
00:43:46,559 --> 00:43:44,470
story you know interesting stuff really

910
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:46,569
well you know talking talking about and

911
00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:49,510
UFOs being shot at you know I remember

912
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:53,049
this and I think we we budgeted an email

913
00:44:00,420 --> 00:43:55,210
an incident that took place what was it

914
00:44:04,529 --> 00:44:00,430
in 1965 or 66 where a fella by the name

915
00:44:08,339 --> 00:44:04,539
of John King actually shot at a UFO and

916
00:44:11,070 --> 00:44:08,349
now there's some discrepancy whether the

917
00:44:14,370 --> 00:44:11,080
bullets actually struck the crash

918
00:44:16,770 --> 00:44:14,380
or they didn't and can you tell us that

919
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:16,780
story I mean you I'm sure you've I know

920
00:44:21,390 --> 00:44:18,400
you've written it up in your in your

921
00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:21,400
book there yeah yeah um I actually live

922
00:44:25,020 --> 00:44:23,710
just one block away over from where this

923
00:44:27,780 --> 00:44:25,030
occurred it occurred on Mount Hope

924
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:27,790
Avenue and he was driving along and

925
00:44:32,310 --> 00:44:30,130
there was a hospital raid on Mount Hope

926
00:44:34,530 --> 00:44:32,320
at one point and there was a swampy area

927
00:44:37,230 --> 00:44:34,540
next to it so he's driving down the road

928
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:37,240
and in the swampy area he sees an

929
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:40,450
overturned car and he doesn't see any

930
00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:42,970
emergency vehicles on sight yet so he

931
00:44:48,930 --> 00:44:45,310
screeches to a halt gets out of the car

932
00:44:50,610 --> 00:44:48,940
and kind of manages the swampy area

933
00:44:53,580 --> 00:44:50,620
trying to avoid you know the the wet

934
00:44:56,370 --> 00:44:53,590
bits if you will and as he's making his

935
00:44:58,740 --> 00:44:56,380
way over there he looks up at the

936
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:58,750
overturned car and finds up that he is

937
00:45:03,750 --> 00:44:59,920
gravely mistaken

938
00:45:06,780 --> 00:45:03,760
and it is in fact a UFO hovering just a

939
00:45:08,610 --> 00:45:06,790
you know just above the the ground it

940
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:08,620
starts kind of wobbling back and forth

941
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:10,450
and then slowly starts heading right

942
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:12,970
towards him well this terrifies him so

943
00:45:20,340 --> 00:45:17,440
he runs back to his car and he has a 22

944
00:45:23,010 --> 00:45:20,350
gun in his car so he grabs for it and he

945
00:45:26,370 --> 00:45:23,020
accidentally fires it off just from like

946
00:45:28,290 --> 00:45:26,380
his I just stated state you know and he

947
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:28,300
also saw that the gunshot did not seem

948
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:30,490
to do anything to the UFO it didn't seem

949
00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:32,530
to react in any way so he actually heard

950
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:36,040
and aimed right at the UFO and took a

951
00:45:42,450 --> 00:45:39,730
shot and he did not hit it and it still

952
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:42,460
was coming towards him and then he took

953
00:45:47,940 --> 00:45:45,280
aim one last time and took shot at the

954
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:47,950
UFO actually hit it and with the clang

955
00:45:52,020 --> 00:45:49,690
you know like he heard the clang of the

956
00:45:55,710 --> 00:45:52,030
bullet hitting it the UFO like instantly

957
00:45:57,930 --> 00:45:55,720
ascended it was interesting too about

958
00:46:00,030 --> 00:45:57,940
just about 30 days later there was a

959
00:46:03,540 --> 00:46:00,040
girl a young girl she was six years old

960
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:03,550
in the town of Bingham Maine and she saw

961
00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:08,410
a bubble-like UFO land in a field and it

962
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:11,440
had a door and the way she described the

963
00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:12,970
UFO on the way John King just drive

964
00:46:18,980 --> 00:46:15,310
described his UFO they could look like

965
00:46:21,930 --> 00:46:18,990
vehicles you know or overturned cars and

966
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:21,940
with with the sightings just 30 days

967
00:46:26,380 --> 00:46:24,290
apart and about 60 miles apart you know

968
00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:26,390
I'm wondering if it could have been the

969
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:30,830
same same craft hmm well you know I also

970
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:34,000
also - there is there is there's a

971
00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:36,170
billboard that was put up was that

972
00:46:38,380 --> 00:46:38,240
around the same time where they imbrue

973
00:46:41,950 --> 00:46:38,390
er

974
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:41,960
yeah that was a 1966 the mayor put that

975
00:46:47,260 --> 00:46:44,720
up actually but it was more done so

976
00:46:48,970 --> 00:46:47,270
tongue-in-cheek and it said you know

977
00:46:53,110 --> 00:46:48,980
UFOs welcome you know something like

978
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:53,120
that yeah Lots available for Landy and

979
00:46:56,860 --> 00:46:55,130
uh but sort of tongue-in-cheek he was

980
00:46:58,840 --> 00:46:56,870
actually trying to drive businesses to

981
00:47:02,320 --> 00:46:58,850
Brewer and actually involved it actually

982
00:47:04,540 --> 00:47:02,330
ended up working but in 1966 in Eliot

983
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:04,550
main which is a way at the southern tip

984
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:07,010
of Maine you're just about getting into

985
00:47:12,510 --> 00:47:08,450
Massachusetts at that point in New

986
00:47:17,170 --> 00:47:12,520
Hampshire in Elliot's mean there was a

987
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:17,180
UFO flap and you could see or it was

988
00:47:21,060 --> 00:47:18,530
described by witnesses that you could

989
00:47:23,730 --> 00:47:21,070
just see fleets of UFOs nightly

990
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:23,740
following the river down in Elliott and

991
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:28,160
it got so regular and so consistent that

992
00:47:32,770 --> 00:47:30,410
food trucks and food carts would set up

993
00:47:35,740 --> 00:47:32,780
shop there because so many people would

994
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:35,750
show up to watch the UFOs police work or

995
00:47:39,220 --> 00:47:37,760
then just to manage traffic it was

996
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:39,230
really really interesting and that was

997
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:41,330
in 1966 and he was trying to capitalize

998
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:43,760
on that well you know speaking of

999
00:47:50,710 --> 00:47:47,210
capitalizing this weekend the the 20th

1000
00:47:53,590 --> 00:47:50,720
of May there is the festival one-day

1001
00:47:54,370 --> 00:47:53,600
festival in Pine Bush New York Festival

1002
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:54,380
and parade

1003
00:47:58,840 --> 00:47:56,480
I understand Travis Walton is going to

1004
00:48:01,180 --> 00:47:58,850
be there Linda Zimmerman who was on our

1005
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:01,190
program last week plenty of free

1006
00:48:06,820 --> 00:48:04,880
lectures plenty of excitement it's

1007
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:06,830
something for the entire family

1008
00:48:12,010 --> 00:48:08,930
of course Pine Bush New York going back

1009
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:12,020
about 20 years ago was a hot spot hot

1010
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:15,810
spot as far as UFOs go

1011
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,580
[Music]

1012
00:48:36,050 --> 00:48:32,750
explode resolve your e-ticket riders of

1013
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:36,060
the world of a paranoid strap yourself

1014
00:48:45,250 --> 00:48:39,450
in as we traverse the universe exploring

1015
00:48:47,630 --> 00:48:45,260
the unexplained UFO ghosts lost world

1016
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:47,640
cryptozoology as well as other

1017
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:51,510
dimensions it's time to take back the

1018
00:48:59,150 --> 00:48:55,920
night after night now your electrifying

1019
00:49:04,580 --> 00:48:59,160
hosts of exploring the bizarre Timothy

1020
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:04,590
Begley and Tim Schwartz welcome back to

1021
00:49:09,950 --> 00:49:06,450
the second power of explore in the

1022
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:09,960
bazaar and as always I encourage you are

1023
00:49:16,430 --> 00:49:13,280
beloved listeners to send us questions

1024
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:16,440
for our guests if you have any we love

1025
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:19,680
to hear from you and there's well I

1026
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:21,090
don't want to say there's no question

1027
00:49:25,820 --> 00:49:23,760
too dumb for us because even even we

1028
00:49:29,150 --> 00:49:25,830
have our limits but hey go for it you

1029
00:49:31,130 --> 00:49:29,160
know who we're if we don't say it on the

1030
00:49:33,470 --> 00:49:31,140
air will be able to get a good laugh out

1031
00:49:36,290 --> 00:49:33,480
of it let me put it that way so let's

1032
00:49:39,140 --> 00:49:36,300
bring a Nick Redfern back into the

1033
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:39,150
conversation Tim and Nick I wanted to

1034
00:49:46,690 --> 00:49:43,440
ask you about your your book the Roswell

1035
00:49:52,430 --> 00:49:46,700
UFO conspiracy exposing a shocking and

1036
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:52,440
sinister secret now what made you decide

1037
00:50:02,030 --> 00:49:56,640
to write this sequel considering how

1038
00:50:04,190 --> 00:50:02,040
much abuse that you received concerning

1039
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:04,200
that concerning the first one I mean I

1040
00:50:09,530 --> 00:50:07,170
have never seen so many people just get

1041
00:50:12,620 --> 00:50:09,540
their panties in a bunch you know over

1042
00:50:14,930 --> 00:50:12,630
that over your original book I mean it's

1043
00:50:17,330 --> 00:50:14,940
just and you know I have to say

1044
00:50:19,220 --> 00:50:17,340
something I mean I you know I think you

1045
00:50:22,310 --> 00:50:19,230
know the first one and now another

1046
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:22,320
sequel I mean they're uh it's it's it's

1047
00:50:29,330 --> 00:50:23,610
really something to think about

1048
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:29,340
but I mean what are you just like a like

1049
00:50:33,740 --> 00:50:31,770
a masochist or something I think you

1050
00:50:36,980 --> 00:50:33,750
know you just you just wanted to repeat

1051
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:36,990
the experience of you know so well I

1052
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:39,450
mean I actually don't mind a good you

1053
00:50:41,870 --> 00:50:40,290
know fight

1054
00:50:43,550 --> 00:50:41,880
arguments oh you know I'll give the

1055
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:43,560
abuse back as much as they dish it out

1056
00:50:47,210 --> 00:50:44,970
that's why he went on for so long

1057
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:47,220
because you know if you're the kind of

1058
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:50,400
character the kind of cut take debate

1059
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:52,890
and you just sort of sit in the corner

1060
00:50:58,340 --> 00:50:56,610
and cower you know the conversation go

1061
00:51:00,800 --> 00:50:58,350
end pretty quick but the reason why went

1062
00:51:03,020 --> 00:51:00,810
on and on was because I just constantly

1063
00:51:05,570 --> 00:51:03,030
heat back at everybody in the same way

1064
00:51:07,850 --> 00:51:05,580
they heat back at me you know but but I

1065
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:07,860
think you know it's actually a good

1066
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:11,490
thing to to get these issues out because

1067
00:51:16,370 --> 00:51:14,490
the thing is you know back in 2005 I

1068
00:51:18,620 --> 00:51:16,380
wrote this book or body-snatchers in the

1069
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:18,630
desert which basically looked at the

1070
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:21,210
idea in the immediate post-war area you

1071
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:24,480
know sort of 46:47 a lot of weird stuff

1072
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:26,880
was going on in New Mexico you know you

1073
00:51:33,460 --> 00:51:29,760
had the German paperclip rocket

1074
00:51:38,110 --> 00:51:33,470
scientists brought over you had a lot of

1075
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:38,120
experiments in high-altitude exposure

1076
00:51:44,210 --> 00:51:41,520
balloon flights with pigs and monkeys on

1077
00:51:47,330 --> 00:51:44,220
board to test high altitudes and as

1078
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:47,340
being rumors over the years about human

1079
00:51:52,850 --> 00:51:50,850
experimentation involving people sort of

1080
00:51:57,140 --> 00:51:52,860
clandestinely taken from hospitals and

1081
00:51:59,630 --> 00:51:57,150
asylums and tying it all in with the

1082
00:52:01,880 --> 00:51:59,640
transfer of a lot of balloon based

1083
00:52:05,450 --> 00:52:01,890
technology from the Japanese who are

1084
00:52:08,750 --> 00:52:05,460
building these very weird balloons in

1085
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:08,760
the final stages of the war so that was

1086
00:52:15,020 --> 00:52:12,240
basically the theme that was 2005 and in

1087
00:52:16,910 --> 00:52:15,030
the 12 years that have gone by since

1088
00:52:19,700 --> 00:52:16,920
that book came out I've got a lot more

1089
00:52:22,130 --> 00:52:19,710
material that basically backs up that

1090
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:22,140
theory now four people have sort of read

1091
00:52:26,030 --> 00:52:24,090
my books I wouldn't want people to think

1092
00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:26,040
I'm a UFO skeptic because I'm not

1093
00:52:30,530 --> 00:52:28,260
there's no doubt in my mind there's a

1094
00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:30,540
real UFO phenomenon and the reason I got

1095
00:52:34,190 --> 00:52:32,700
involved in the subjects my dad was in

1096
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:34,200
the British Royal Air Force he was a

1097
00:52:39,380 --> 00:52:36,330
radar mechanic and he was involved in

1098
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:39,390
several UFO incidents but even though

1099
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:40,800
I'm a full believer in the UFO

1100
00:52:46,910 --> 00:52:43,920
phenomenon I'm not convinced that a UFO

1101
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:46,920
crashed at Roswell and the more I dug

1102
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:50,880
into this the more I found additional

1103
00:52:55,310 --> 00:52:53,700
material on this angle of

1104
00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:55,320
dark and disturbing human

1105
00:53:01,670 --> 00:52:57,920
experimentation related to high-altitude

1106
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:01,680
flights massive balloons all in the

1107
00:53:09,620 --> 00:53:04,530
skies over New Mexico in the summer of

1108
00:53:12,170 --> 00:53:09,630
1947 now in terms of you know our

1109
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:12,180
masochist no way you know I put the book

1110
00:53:18,500 --> 00:53:14,640
out because I'd got enough new material

1111
00:53:20,270 --> 00:53:18,510
now to you know to to allow for a book

1112
00:53:22,130 --> 00:53:20,280
to be written on the subject which

1113
00:53:25,090 --> 00:53:22,140
wouldn't be filled with filler you know

1114
00:53:28,310 --> 00:53:25,100
know was of a good length for the reader

1115
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:28,320
but my view has always been you know if

1116
00:53:32,450 --> 00:53:30,450
you uncover something we'll put it out

1117
00:53:35,930 --> 00:53:32,460
there because I always tell people that

1118
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:35,940
you know the term UFO the you still

1119
00:53:40,970 --> 00:53:39,210
stands for unidentified we're not really

1120
00:53:42,590 --> 00:53:40,980
sure what you know the not just the

1121
00:53:46,580 --> 00:53:42,600
phenomenon is but what the individual

1122
00:53:49,030 --> 00:53:46,590
cases are so I think I think what you

1123
00:53:52,340 --> 00:53:49,040
followed his biggest mistake is

1124
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:52,350
elevating Roswell to the number one

1125
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:53,730
events because whenever you put all your

1126
00:53:59,600 --> 00:53:57,570
eggs in one basket if he crashes then

1127
00:54:02,480 --> 00:53:59,610
everything comes crashing around with it

1128
00:54:04,580 --> 00:54:02,490
not because it should do but because the

1129
00:54:05,690 --> 00:54:04,590
case is perceived as the best one and

1130
00:54:07,940 --> 00:54:05,700
then people think well if it's that's

1131
00:54:10,430 --> 00:54:07,950
the best one and it collapses what does

1132
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:10,440
it say for the rest so you know I think

1133
00:54:17,810 --> 00:54:14,400
that's that ufology and I don't see

1134
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:17,820
anything wrong with questioning you know

1135
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:21,450
the status quo so to speak if I see

1136
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:23,280
evidence I'm not one to sort of shy away

1137
00:54:27,530 --> 00:54:25,290
from sharing contract controversial

1138
00:54:30,500 --> 00:54:27,540
material if I think it's going to

1139
00:54:32,450 --> 00:54:30,510
further ufology now so that's basically

1140
00:54:36,820 --> 00:54:32,460
again with the theme of the new book

1141
00:54:40,310 --> 00:54:36,830
there's a lot more material related to

1142
00:54:43,010 --> 00:54:40,320
most people sort of know their post-war

1143
00:54:45,110 --> 00:54:43,020
history know about the German paper clip

1144
00:54:46,580 --> 00:54:45,120
program to bring the German rocket

1145
00:54:48,260 --> 00:54:46,590
scientist over but there's a

1146
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:48,270
lesser-known much lesser-known

1147
00:54:52,850 --> 00:54:50,910
Japanese equivalence where Japanese

1148
00:54:54,380 --> 00:54:52,860
scientists were brought over and some of

1149
00:54:57,350 --> 00:54:54,390
them are working on very controversial

1150
00:54:59,600 --> 00:54:57,360
programs like human experiments to

1151
00:55:01,730 --> 00:54:59,610
determine how people will be affected by

1152
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:01,740
high and low pressures you know in the

1153
00:55:10,059 --> 00:55:07,180
and what's particularly intriguing is a

1154
00:55:13,779 --> 00:55:10,069
number of the witnesses to the bodies at

1155
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:13,789
Roswell never described them as you know

1156
00:55:16,989 --> 00:55:15,650
looking like the so called grays and you

1157
00:55:19,660 --> 00:55:16,999
don't hear much about this in ufology

1158
00:55:21,849 --> 00:55:19,670
interestingly enough but Melvin brown

1159
00:55:24,130 --> 00:55:21,859
one of the witnesses to the bodies his

1160
00:55:28,450 --> 00:55:24,140
exact words were they could have passed

1161
00:55:31,029 --> 00:55:28,460
for Chinese and something else a lot of

1162
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:31,039
people don't realize is that just

1163
00:55:34,930 --> 00:55:33,440
literally down the road almost from the

1164
00:55:38,289 --> 00:55:34,940
foster ranch where the wreckage was

1165
00:55:41,079 --> 00:55:38,299
found by Rancher Mac Brazel there's an

1166
00:55:43,809 --> 00:55:41,089
old military base called Fort Stanton in

1167
00:55:46,930 --> 00:55:43,819
the Second World War Fort Stanton was

1168
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:46,940
home to Japanese enemy aliens as they

1169
00:55:50,859 --> 00:55:48,650
were known at that time and they were

1170
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:50,869
sort of you know under guard there there

1171
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:54,650
and and also for stance it operated

1172
00:56:00,180 --> 00:55:56,890
immediately afterwards is a place where

1173
00:56:02,739 --> 00:56:00,190
handicapped and people at psychological

1174
00:56:05,140 --> 00:56:02,749
disturbances were held this all comes to

1175
00:56:08,140 --> 00:56:05,150
play in this story and it's right in the

1176
00:56:09,609 --> 00:56:08,150
vicinity of the ranch where we the crash

1177
00:56:11,769 --> 00:56:09,619
happened so there's a lot of stuff like

1178
00:56:15,729 --> 00:56:11,779
that in the book now of course people

1179
00:56:19,089 --> 00:56:15,739
who are very sort of driven by you know

1180
00:56:20,650 --> 00:56:19,099
the I want to believe factor they're

1181
00:56:23,769 --> 00:56:20,660
just going to say oh you know Nick's

1182
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:23,779
being deceived or lied to now it meets

1183
00:56:28,930 --> 00:56:26,210
it I can never I can never dispute that

1184
00:56:30,190 --> 00:56:28,940
or deny it I should say because I can

1185
00:56:31,839 --> 00:56:30,200
never say for sure that it wasn't

1186
00:56:35,259 --> 00:56:31,849
disinformation or it isn't this

1187
00:56:36,849 --> 00:56:35,269
information but when the stories are

1188
00:56:38,170 --> 00:56:36,859
coming from numerous different people

1189
00:56:40,180 --> 00:56:38,180
and not just to me but to other

1190
00:56:42,130 --> 00:56:40,190
researchers like in the book I talk

1191
00:56:45,450 --> 00:56:42,140
about an Australian researcher keith

1192
00:56:48,460 --> 00:56:45,460
pastor field keith was actually given

1193
00:56:51,039 --> 00:56:48,470
practically the same story as me but he

1194
00:56:52,989 --> 00:56:51,049
got it before body-snatchers came out

1195
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:52,999
and he kept quiet about it and it was

1196
00:56:56,410 --> 00:56:54,650
only when my book came out that he was

1197
00:56:59,109 --> 00:56:56,420
like well you know this sounds like the

1198
00:57:01,120 --> 00:56:59,119
same story Popular Mechanics were given

1199
00:57:04,210 --> 00:57:01,130
this Japanese angle for the Roswell

1200
00:57:06,039 --> 00:57:04,220
bodies back in 1997 they published a

1201
00:57:08,349 --> 00:57:06,049
story about that they'd been told before

1202
00:57:10,660 --> 00:57:08,359
coming release of documents which didn't

1203
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:10,670
happen but so that's those are the kind

1204
00:57:13,660 --> 00:57:11,930
of reasons why I don't think it's

1205
00:57:16,809 --> 00:57:13,670
disinformation

1206
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:16,819
but I think you know it's important to

1207
00:57:20,559 --> 00:57:18,770
get the story out because if we have

1208
00:57:23,579 --> 00:57:20,569
been following the wrong track for so

1209
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:23,589
long with Roswell then we shouldn't

1210
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:26,569
ignore that you know I think there is

1211
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:28,970
this issue where a lot of people ufology

1212
00:57:34,599 --> 00:57:32,450
is just like a business or you know

1213
00:57:37,059 --> 00:57:34,609
something that we've got to uphold well

1214
00:57:40,059 --> 00:57:37,069
no I mean for me we've got to go where

1215
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:40,069
where the answers are and not just hold

1216
00:57:45,309 --> 00:57:42,290
up old paradigms or whatever because

1217
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:45,319
they're exciting or cool you know we

1218
00:57:48,490 --> 00:57:46,880
just need to go for the answers and

1219
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:48,500
whatever the answers are good but

1220
00:57:54,579 --> 00:57:51,200
somewhere in between that's how it goes

1221
00:57:58,270 --> 00:57:54,589
you know we're not just how reliable the

1222
00:58:01,660 --> 00:57:58,280
reports of alien bodies associated with

1223
00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:01,670
Roswell crash anyway well it's

1224
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:03,369
interesting you should say that because

1225
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:05,930
Kevin Randall who's you know one of the

1226
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:07,520
I actually talked about having quite a

1227
00:58:12,359 --> 00:58:09,680
bit in the book because for me is the

1228
00:58:16,030 --> 00:58:12,369
he's the most level-headed of the pro

1229
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:16,040
UFO researchers for Roswell but in his

1230
00:58:22,150 --> 00:58:18,730
latest book Roswell in the 21st century

1231
00:58:25,510 --> 00:58:22,160
Kevin actually makes it very clear but

1232
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:25,520
heat now dismisses nearly all the alien

1233
00:58:30,099 --> 00:58:28,160
body accounts from the Roswell crash you

1234
00:58:32,589 --> 00:58:30,109
know which is which in one sense

1235
00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:32,599
probably surprised a lot of people but

1236
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:35,510
also you know it's brave of him to do

1237
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:37,730
that you know because of you know how

1238
00:58:44,410 --> 00:58:40,010
many books he's written on Roswell from

1239
00:58:48,130 --> 00:58:44,420
a pro alien perspective and you know

1240
00:58:49,450 --> 00:58:48,140
when you find that then I think you know

1241
00:58:50,799 --> 00:58:49,460
it so it doesn't add weight to the

1242
00:58:53,140 --> 00:58:50,809
theory that I'm talking about but he

1243
00:58:56,319 --> 00:58:53,150
does demonstrate that people are now

1244
00:59:00,160 --> 00:58:56,329
looking at Roswell from a more critical

1245
00:59:01,450 --> 00:59:00,170
perspective whereas before it was people

1246
00:59:04,210 --> 00:59:01,460
wanted to believe it because it was

1247
00:59:07,930 --> 00:59:04,220
exciting it was conspiratorial you know

1248
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:07,940
and and I think that's the problem with

1249
00:59:12,370 --> 00:59:09,410
Roswell you know the one hand it's

1250
00:59:14,530 --> 00:59:12,380
ironic because it is so intriguing it

1251
00:59:17,230 --> 00:59:14,540
captivates people and people don't want

1252
00:59:19,690 --> 00:59:17,240
to lose what it is that captivates them

1253
00:59:23,740 --> 00:59:19,700
and what captivates them is the alien

1254
00:59:29,260 --> 00:59:23,750
angle that is what it comes down to you

1255
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:29,270
will read the whole idea of using really

1256
00:59:34,870 --> 00:59:31,970
people as guinea pigs I mean it's not

1257
00:59:38,890 --> 00:59:34,880
without precedent I mean I know that the

1258
00:59:41,740 --> 00:59:38,900
Japanese a dead during World War two and

1259
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:41,750
probably ill before with Chinese

1260
00:59:51,370 --> 00:59:45,770
prisoners the Soviet Union allegedly

1261
00:59:53,940 --> 00:59:51,380
used mentally handicapped people to put

1262
00:59:57,490 --> 00:59:53,950
close to their atomic bomb test and

1263
01:00:00,460 --> 00:59:57,500
allegedly the United States did the same

1264
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:00,470
thing in some of the locations in New

1265
01:00:08,819 --> 01:00:04,160
Mexico and I think Nevada as well so the

1266
01:00:12,970 --> 01:00:08,829
idea that that the US may have used

1267
01:00:17,049 --> 01:00:12,980
humans in these experiments I mean I to

1268
01:00:18,849 --> 01:00:17,059
me I don't find that too far-fetched now

1269
01:00:21,849 --> 01:00:18,859
I mean you know it's all sorry in

1270
01:00:23,710 --> 01:00:21,859
England you know where I'm from about 20

1271
01:00:26,109 --> 01:00:23,720
years ago the British government started

1272
01:00:31,329 --> 01:00:26,119
to release files showing that back in

1273
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:31,339
the 50s they'd used LSD on unwitting or

1274
01:00:36,370 --> 01:00:34,130
knowing soldiers basically to see how

1275
01:00:38,799 --> 01:00:36,380
they'd be affected on the battlefield

1276
01:00:41,109 --> 01:00:38,809
you know if some sort of psychedelic was

1277
01:00:43,390 --> 01:00:41,119
kind of you know unleashed so to speak

1278
01:00:45,069 --> 01:00:43,400
and so you know things like this have

1279
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:45,079
gone on and I mean certainly in the

1280
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:47,510
night early 1990s there was the whole

1281
01:00:52,930 --> 01:00:49,970
under Clinton administration this

1282
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:52,940
committee that looked into human

1283
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:55,520
radiation experiments and things like

1284
01:01:00,039 --> 01:00:58,160
that so you know it's this is one of the

1285
01:01:01,990 --> 01:01:00,049
things that you know often does happen

1286
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:02,000
all around the world that's you know

1287
01:01:07,660 --> 01:01:05,290
sometimes the line gets crossed now

1288
01:01:12,370 --> 01:01:07,670
regardless what people think you come

1289
01:01:14,710 --> 01:01:12,380
down on the ranch in 47 the fact is you

1290
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:14,720
know superficially it does look like you

1291
01:01:19,780 --> 01:01:16,970
know balloon wreckage

1292
01:01:21,700 --> 01:01:19,790
you know debris foil etc now one of the

1293
01:01:24,039 --> 01:01:21,710
things a lot of people don't know the

1294
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:24,049
ranch itself the foster ranch was was

1295
01:01:28,809 --> 01:01:26,089
and still is it's a gigantic ranch I've

1296
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:28,819
been out there you know around there a

1297
01:01:33,220 --> 01:01:30,890
lot of people don't know that Brazil the

1298
01:01:35,890 --> 01:01:33,230
ranch who found the wreckage actually

1299
01:01:36,290 --> 01:01:35,900
admitted that he found wreckage from two

1300
01:01:38,810 --> 01:01:36,300
four

1301
01:01:41,180 --> 01:01:38,820
previous military balloons on the ranch

1302
01:01:45,020 --> 01:01:41,190
so you know in other words things are

1303
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:45,030
coming down across New Mexico raining

1304
01:01:49,700 --> 01:01:46,890
down from the sky because you had so

1305
01:01:52,460 --> 01:01:49,710
many military bases performing a lot of

1306
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:52,470
experimental activities like Alma Gordo

1307
01:01:57,890 --> 01:01:55,650
White Sands then also you know in New

1308
01:02:00,100 --> 01:01:57,900
Mexico you had the Los Alamos labs where

1309
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:00,110
the atomic bomb bomb was developed and

1310
01:02:05,570 --> 01:02:02,370
numerous other installations like

1311
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:05,580
Kirtland and you put all that together

1312
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:07,650
with a time frame and the scientists

1313
01:02:11,900 --> 01:02:10,290
being brought over and looking into new

1314
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:11,910
technologies for aircraft and high

1315
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:14,370
altitude flights and then suddenly this

1316
01:02:22,940 --> 01:02:18,530
weird thing comes down in New Mexico and

1317
01:02:25,420 --> 01:02:22,950
amid tales of not just UFOs but human

1318
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:25,430
experiments and handicapped people and

1319
01:02:30,860 --> 01:02:28,050
Japanese people brought over and given

1320
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:30,870
one of those offers you can't refuse you

1321
01:02:36,290 --> 01:02:34,170
know you put all those you blend all

1322
01:02:38,420 --> 01:02:36,300
those things together and there is sort

1323
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:38,430
of a dark picture that could push

1324
01:02:42,740 --> 01:02:40,770
Roswell in a different direction but you

1325
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:42,750
know I mean that the the backlash has

1326
01:02:47,030 --> 01:02:44,370
already started and I've you know I've

1327
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:47,040
had done some shows where you know it's

1328
01:02:51,590 --> 01:02:49,680
got peaches and that's flying you know I

1329
01:02:53,330 --> 01:02:51,600
could I cans punch back as hard as

1330
01:02:56,810 --> 01:02:53,340
anybody else you know and I will and

1331
01:02:59,090 --> 01:02:56,820
because I think it's important to you

1332
01:03:00,530 --> 01:02:59,100
know to support what you believe you

1333
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:00,540
know if you believe in something not

1334
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:03,210
just unbelief but because you conclude

1335
01:03:09,290 --> 01:03:06,330
it's the the right answer and you have

1336
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:09,300
the right evidence but the one downside

1337
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:12,240
and it is a downside not to the theory

1338
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:15,570
itself but nearly all the old-timers I

1339
01:03:19,910 --> 01:03:18,450
interviewed said that because this was

1340
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:19,920
sort of these events there was

1341
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:22,410
supposedly like seven or eight of these

1342
01:03:28,850 --> 01:03:24,810
experiments in New Mexico between 45 and

1343
01:03:31,100 --> 01:03:28,860
roughly 48 there abouts and they said

1344
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:31,110
that because not too much was learned

1345
01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:33,690
from this and the experiments was seen

1346
01:03:37,670 --> 01:03:36,000
as sort of semi illegal and people were

1347
01:03:40,130 --> 01:03:37,680
worried about what would happen to them

1348
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:40,140
you know for the kind of allowing these

1349
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:42,480
events to go ahead that everything was

1350
01:03:46,940 --> 01:03:44,730
destroyed in other words the documents

1351
01:03:49,610 --> 01:03:46,950
were destroyed shredded burned whatever

1352
01:03:50,060 --> 01:03:49,620
they there would be no reason to keep

1353
01:03:53,060 --> 01:03:50,070
you know

1354
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:53,070
wreckage of balloons and arguably there

1355
01:03:57,470 --> 01:03:55,530
was no real point in keeping the the

1356
01:04:00,470 --> 01:03:57,480
bodies of the people who are involved so

1357
01:04:02,180 --> 01:04:00,480
most people who I interviewed who had

1358
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:02,190
some knowledge of the events but then

1359
01:04:07,610 --> 01:04:04,890
Alzheimer's etc for the military said

1360
01:04:09,710 --> 01:04:07,620
that as far as I knew everything was

1361
01:04:12,500 --> 01:04:09,720
destroyed back there now if that is the

1362
01:04:15,230 --> 01:04:12,510
case then it may and this theory is true

1363
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:15,240
it may actually be impossible to prove

1364
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:18,330
what happened if you know some agency or

1365
01:04:22,970 --> 01:04:20,730
something the government decided that

1366
01:04:24,410 --> 01:04:22,980
everything's got to be gone taken away

1367
01:04:26,030 --> 01:04:24,420
you know and destroyed and it is

1368
01:04:29,750 --> 01:04:26,040
interesting when the Air Force went

1369
01:04:31,580 --> 01:04:29,760
looking in 93 and 94 they found that all

1370
01:04:35,090 --> 01:04:31,590
the outgoing messages from the Roswell

1371
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:35,100
Army Air Force Base from 45 to 51 were

1372
01:04:39,290 --> 01:04:37,170
gone now that's not true that's a fact

1373
01:04:43,850 --> 01:04:39,300
every outgoing message from the Roswell

1374
01:04:46,070 --> 01:04:43,860
base from 45 to 51 cannot be found and

1375
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:46,080
there's no indication when that material

1376
01:04:50,180 --> 01:04:48,510
vanished it was only when people with

1377
01:04:52,340 --> 01:04:50,190
the Air Force went looking for answers

1378
01:04:54,170 --> 01:04:52,350
the Roswell in the early 90s but then

1379
01:04:56,780 --> 01:04:54,180
they realize well hang on where's all

1380
01:04:59,810 --> 01:04:56,790
this material so that could be something

1381
01:05:03,560 --> 01:04:59,820
to that idea that you know because if it

1382
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:03,570
was if it was a UFO crash then none of

1383
01:05:07,910 --> 01:05:05,130
that material would ever be destroyed

1384
01:05:10,370 --> 01:05:07,920
because it would be unique material that

1385
01:05:12,650 --> 01:05:10,380
we could learn a massive amount from but

1386
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:12,660
if it was a secret experiment and you

1387
01:05:17,630 --> 01:05:14,970
could argue that everything would be

1388
01:05:19,580 --> 01:05:17,640
destroyed you know so it's a but then

1389
01:05:22,250 --> 01:05:19,590
again other people said to me now that

1390
01:05:24,350 --> 01:05:22,260
some of them files were kept and how are

1391
01:05:26,270 --> 01:05:24,360
still preserved so that could still be

1392
01:05:29,660 --> 01:05:26,280
you know light at the end of the tunnel

1393
01:05:31,700 --> 01:05:29,670
so to speak well I think no more I had a

1394
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:31,710
question that that he'd like to ask you

1395
01:05:37,850 --> 01:05:34,170
now go ahead no more I was wondering how

1396
01:05:40,910 --> 01:05:37,860
this plays into the supposed like to

1397
01:05:43,340 --> 01:05:40,920
crash locations you know that since come

1398
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:43,350
out and what do you what are you

1399
01:05:47,810 --> 01:05:46,050
thoughts on that well yeah I mean this

1400
01:05:50,540 --> 01:05:47,820
actually sort of plays into the story

1401
01:05:52,900 --> 01:05:50,550
because the people I interviewed and

1402
01:05:56,330 --> 01:05:52,910
also with the Popular Mechanics story

1403
01:05:59,600 --> 01:05:56,340
when they came out with airs in 97 the

1404
01:06:01,670 --> 01:05:59,610
the overriding explanation I got was

1405
01:06:04,130 --> 01:06:01,680
that the one that came down on Roswell

1406
01:06:06,650 --> 01:06:04,140
was kind of like a two-part device it

1407
01:06:08,090 --> 01:06:06,660
was one of these huge balloons that the

1408
01:06:10,190 --> 01:06:08,100
Japanese are based on these huge

1409
01:06:12,380 --> 01:06:10,200
balloons at the Japanese of building in

1410
01:06:15,500 --> 01:06:12,390
the closing stages of the war I mean

1411
01:06:18,740 --> 01:06:15,510
like gigantic balloons and they would

1412
01:06:20,780 --> 01:06:18,750
have hanging beneath them like a like an

1413
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:20,790
early kind of lifting body like a like a

1414
01:06:25,580 --> 01:06:23,130
lifting body glider type craft which

1415
01:06:28,100 --> 01:06:25,590
could be basically the idea was you'd

1416
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:28,110
have these huge balloons flying along at

1417
01:06:33,070 --> 01:06:30,290
speed and you would have these

1418
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:33,080
detachable gliders

1419
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:35,490
which would deject would detach from the

1420
01:06:40,070 --> 01:06:36,690
from the balloon

1421
01:06:42,170 --> 01:06:40,080
now according to the story what happened

1422
01:06:46,010 --> 01:06:42,180
there was some sort of aerial high

1423
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:46,020
altitude calamity where the balloon ask

1424
01:06:51,860 --> 01:06:49,050
you beware the lifting body didn't

1425
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:51,870
detach properly or normally from this

1426
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:54,000
huge balloon and what happened was that

1427
01:06:58,130 --> 01:06:56,850
instead of gliding down it plummeted to

1428
01:07:01,120 --> 01:06:58,140
the ground so you have this heavy

1429
01:07:04,310 --> 01:07:01,130
aircraft plummeting to the ground and

1430
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:04,320
the balloon was badly damaged so that

1431
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:06,570
came down as well but what happened is

1432
01:07:11,150 --> 01:07:09,690
that the craft itself because it was

1433
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:11,160
heavy slammed down to the ground

1434
01:07:16,010 --> 01:07:13,650
vertically but the blue wreckage which

1435
01:07:18,860 --> 01:07:16,020
exploded in the sky because there was

1436
01:07:21,410 --> 01:07:18,870
just light you know foil that kind of

1437
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:21,420
rained down but because of the lightness

1438
01:07:26,060 --> 01:07:23,490
of it the trajectory took it to one part

1439
01:07:28,220 --> 01:07:26,070
the ranch but the craft plummeting down

1440
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:28,230
a high speed and being heavy came down

1441
01:07:32,810 --> 01:07:30,450
immediately to another part you know

1442
01:07:36,050 --> 01:07:32,820
it's kind of like if you you know if you

1443
01:07:39,500 --> 01:07:36,060
drop a rock from a building and you also

1444
01:07:40,790 --> 01:07:39,510
drop you know 200 pieces of paper the

1445
01:07:42,290 --> 01:07:40,800
papers not going to comment down

1446
01:07:43,820 --> 01:07:42,300
anywhere near the rock and it was kind

1447
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:43,830
of like that that you have the balloon

1448
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:45,210
and the craft and that's why they were

1449
01:07:50,690 --> 01:07:48,240
two crash sites so which it does make

1450
01:07:52,820 --> 01:07:50,700
sense but whether or not you know the

1451
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:52,830
skeptics would say well that's a

1452
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:54,570
convenient kind of story to hide the

1453
01:08:00,800 --> 01:07:57,450
fact that either two UFOs came down or

1454
01:08:03,350 --> 01:08:00,810
you know so until the price you know I'm

1455
01:08:05,540 --> 01:08:03,360
honest enough to admit some people say

1456
01:08:06,410 --> 01:08:05,550
you know they've solved Roswell and eat

1457
01:08:09,140 --> 01:08:06,420
extra-terrestrial

1458
01:08:11,300 --> 01:08:09,150
I won't say that I've sold Roswell by

1459
01:08:12,770 --> 01:08:11,310
saying it's a human experiment as far as

1460
01:08:14,990 --> 01:08:12,780
I can go because I think this is a

1461
01:08:15,990 --> 01:08:15,000
responsible way is I think there's

1462
01:08:18,150 --> 01:08:16,000
enough

1463
01:08:21,660 --> 01:08:18,160
reasons to strongly push it in that

1464
01:08:24,809 --> 01:08:21,670
direction but if we're honest honest

1465
01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:24,819
with ourselves unless or until we get a

1466
01:08:29,490 --> 01:08:27,520
real smoking gun you know it's going to

1467
01:08:31,579 --> 01:08:29,500
end up like Jack the Ripper you know

1468
01:08:35,070 --> 01:08:31,589
with so many different theories and

1469
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:35,080
ideas but it's so long ago you can't hit

1470
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:36,730
the brick wall it's kind of that sort of

1471
01:08:41,370 --> 01:08:39,130
parallel unit Nick if you don't mind I

1472
01:08:44,999 --> 01:08:41,380
got I got one more question about six

1473
01:08:46,410 --> 01:08:45,009
years later kingman arizona you think

1474
01:08:48,150 --> 01:08:46,420
something similar you know they they

1475
01:08:51,930 --> 01:08:48,160
they call it you know the lesser-known

1476
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:51,940
roswell yeah well i mean it could be i

1477
01:08:57,710 --> 01:08:54,880
mean the thing is we do know that in the

1478
01:09:00,150 --> 01:08:57,720
40s and 50s that were like a lot of

1479
01:09:02,039 --> 01:09:00,160
psychological warfare operations put

1480
01:09:05,300 --> 01:09:02,049
into place by the military of a number

1481
01:09:08,670 --> 01:09:05,310
of countries to actually sort of seed

1482
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:08,680
bogus UFO stories to cover all of the

1483
01:09:14,789 --> 01:09:11,290
things that has happened on a number of

1484
01:09:18,599 --> 01:09:14,799
occasions so yes he could happen and you

1485
01:09:20,700 --> 01:09:18,609
know i think arguably you know

1486
01:09:23,309 --> 01:09:20,710
presenting something as a UFO naturally

1487
01:09:25,829 --> 01:09:23,319
wasn't what that often does is that it

1488
01:09:28,140 --> 01:09:25,839
keeps the mainstream serious

1489
01:09:30,510 --> 01:09:28,150
investigative journalists away from the

1490
01:09:32,430 --> 01:09:30,520
story because none of them want to be

1491
01:09:35,220 --> 01:09:32,440
known as the guy who you know the

1492
01:09:38,010 --> 01:09:35,230
journalist who investigates little theme

1493
01:09:40,289 --> 01:09:38,020
and but you know something called you

1494
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:40,299
ibly of a more down-to-earth explanation

1495
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:44,170
they would look into but keeping people

1496
01:09:49,670 --> 01:09:46,690
away by you know tales of alien little

1497
01:09:53,070 --> 01:09:49,680
green man etc a little gray man whatever

1498
01:09:55,830 --> 01:09:53,080
but actually you know as a bearing not

1499
01:09:59,160 --> 01:09:55,840
just on ufology but on the lantree media

1500
01:10:01,860 --> 01:09:59,170
who won't touch a UFO story unless it's

1501
01:10:03,870 --> 01:10:01,870
kind of like a at least one little joke

1502
01:10:07,830 --> 01:10:03,880
they can make in the story you know in

1503
01:10:10,260 --> 01:10:07,840
the news story so you know i think from

1504
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:10,270
my perspective we need to look at ichiro

1505
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:12,490
case on it's all married or lack of

1506
01:10:18,300 --> 01:10:15,970
marriage and and then shut you know i'm

1507
01:10:21,330 --> 01:10:18,310
not try and piece it all together as

1508
01:10:23,250 --> 01:10:21,340
just one few pieces ethology you know

1509
01:10:26,100 --> 01:10:23,260
some would would you would you say would

1510
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:26,110
you say then Nick there are no

1511
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:29,770
legitimate UFO crashes because we

1512
01:10:34,350 --> 01:10:32,410
you have hundreds of reports in fact now

1513
01:10:36,780 --> 01:10:34,360
according to bill burns he said that

1514
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:36,790
there's a thousand cases of supposed UFO

1515
01:10:42,270 --> 01:10:40,090
crashes around the world they have

1516
01:10:44,340 --> 01:10:42,280
occurred supposedly have occurred in

1517
01:10:46,950 --> 01:10:44,350
other countries besides the United

1518
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:46,960
States and they have for occurred even

1519
01:10:51,980 --> 01:10:49,330
in in recent years where these

1520
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:51,990
experiments would no longer be going on

1521
01:10:57,570 --> 01:10:55,090
well I mean the month after rule had the

1522
01:10:59,580 --> 01:10:57,580
possibility of UFO crashes ironically

1523
01:11:01,980 --> 01:10:59,590
enough you know what I'm trying to do

1524
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:01,990
here was one of you followed you see

1525
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:04,330
problems you know I'm not going to be as

1526
01:11:10,530 --> 01:11:06,850
one case but very often there's this

1527
01:11:12,780 --> 01:11:10,540
temptation in ufology to lock things

1528
01:11:15,570 --> 01:11:12,790
together you know if a UFO was seen

1529
01:11:18,690 --> 01:11:15,580
hovering over Kirtland Air Force Base in

1530
01:11:21,450 --> 01:11:18,700
New Mexico and then three hours later

1531
01:11:23,490 --> 01:11:21,460
someone saw something you know hovering

1532
01:11:26,340 --> 01:11:23,500
over some wearing very old or whatever

1533
01:11:28,950 --> 01:11:26,350
on the same night the probably tendency

1534
01:11:31,020 --> 01:11:28,960
to think well if it's a craft but it may

1535
01:11:32,970 --> 01:11:31,030
not be just here I mean that's one of

1536
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:32,980
the things just because depth I'm going

1537
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:35,050
to have to I'm going to have to

1538
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:36,310
interrupt you here because we have to go

1539
01:11:41,220 --> 01:11:37,810
to our break at the bottom of the hour

1540
01:11:45,180 --> 01:11:41,230
so stay tuned for more exploring design

1541
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:45,190
now back to exploring the bizarre with

1542
01:11:51,060 --> 01:11:47,770
two of the most electrifying researchers

1543
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:51,070
were paranoid your hosts Timothy Becca

1544
01:12:02,570 --> 01:11:59,479
so Tim it just we we always have just

1545
01:12:04,250 --> 01:12:02,580
the best guests on our chuckles and and

1546
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:04,260
and here we are at the bottom of the

1547
01:12:09,290 --> 01:12:07,530
hour and time is rapidly running out so

1548
01:12:10,729 --> 01:12:09,300
why don't we bring no more back into the

1549
01:12:11,540 --> 01:12:10,739
conversation here I know you've got some

1550
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:11,550
questions for him

1551
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:14,640
well I yeah I wanted I know there are

1552
01:12:21,290 --> 01:12:18,210
some high strangeness cases there in in

1553
01:12:25,570 --> 01:12:21,300
Maine I think we're pretty much all

1554
01:12:28,189 --> 01:12:25,580
familiar with the dr. Hopkins

1555
01:12:31,220 --> 01:12:28,199
involvement with the the Minutemen and

1556
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:31,230
blood what it for those of us in the

1557
01:12:37,550 --> 01:12:34,530
audience there who are not that familiar

1558
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:37,560
with the case why don't you give us some

1559
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:39,210
of the details on it because it is one

1560
01:12:46,130 --> 01:12:43,290
of the more fascinating a may be in

1561
01:12:50,689 --> 01:12:46,140
dollars it certainly is

1562
01:12:52,700 --> 01:12:50,699
so back in 1976 dr. Herbert Hopkins was

1563
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:52,710
conducting some hypnotic regression

1564
01:13:00,220 --> 01:12:56,730
therapy with a UFO abductees name was

1565
01:13:04,060 --> 01:13:00,230
David Stevens he was also from Maine and

1566
01:13:06,370 --> 01:13:04,070
whilst going through the hypnotic

1567
01:13:10,189 --> 01:13:06,380
regression therapy there were probably

1568
01:13:13,310 --> 01:13:10,199
five six sessions in and dr. Herbert

1569
01:13:16,070 --> 01:13:13,320
Hopkins received a call one night from

1570
01:13:17,930 --> 01:13:16,080
somebody claiming to be from a UFO

1571
01:13:19,610 --> 01:13:17,940
Bureau out of New Jersey

1572
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:19,620
I believe Nick maybe guessed correctly

1573
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:25,050
yes yeah it was yes yeah and and he was

1574
01:13:29,630 --> 01:13:28,530
warned or he that person said you know

1575
01:13:31,910 --> 01:13:29,640
I'd like to come over and discuss with

1576
01:13:33,530 --> 01:13:31,920
David Stephens case he said sure in an

1577
01:13:36,070 --> 01:13:33,540
instant this person showed up at his

1578
01:13:38,450 --> 01:13:36,080
doorstep of course being back in the 70s

1579
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:38,460
you know if anything he was at a

1580
01:13:41,959 --> 01:13:39,810
payphone and there was no way to get to

1581
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:41,969
his home that quickly so strange

1582
01:13:46,610 --> 01:13:44,489
encounters ensue while this men in black

1583
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:46,620
is inside the home of dr. Herbert

1584
01:13:53,689 --> 01:13:49,770
Hopkins the gentlemen appeared much like

1585
01:13:55,780 --> 01:13:53,699
a lot of the men in black encounters

1586
01:13:58,250 --> 01:13:55,790
sound like mostly from like a Kiel

1587
01:14:02,030 --> 01:13:58,260
perspective you know with the they're

1588
01:14:04,729 --> 01:14:02,040
gone zand seemed almost mechanical they

1589
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:04,739
speak in weird speech patterns almost

1590
01:14:08,359 --> 01:14:07,050
like they don't fully understand our

1591
01:14:10,609 --> 01:14:08,369
language

1592
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:10,619
and the men in black proceeded to

1593
01:14:15,379 --> 01:14:13,199
threaten mr. Hopkins to stop working on

1594
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:15,389
the David Stevens case and if he didn't

1595
01:14:20,780 --> 01:14:18,210
he kind of performed a paranormal parlor

1596
01:14:24,169 --> 01:14:20,790
trick if you will and he had dr. Hopkins

1597
01:14:27,649 --> 01:14:24,179
pull out a coin from his pocket and the

1598
01:14:29,270 --> 01:14:27,659
men in black made the coin disappear at

1599
01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:29,280
got all fuzzy and then disappeared and

1600
01:14:33,859 --> 01:14:31,260
said the same thing what happened to

1601
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:33,869
your heart if you don't stop working on

1602
01:14:40,850 --> 01:14:37,730
this case then the the man in black left

1603
01:14:42,859 --> 01:14:40,860
and the wife came home and all the

1604
01:14:45,020 --> 01:14:42,869
lights in the house were on and and he

1605
01:14:48,050 --> 01:14:45,030
was sitting there holding a gun and he

1606
01:14:50,359 --> 01:14:48,060
had thrown all of his casework and audio

1607
01:14:52,850 --> 01:14:50,369
tapes in the fire

1608
01:14:54,770 --> 01:14:52,860
that same night while his wife and son

1609
01:14:56,810 --> 01:14:54,780
were at the movies

1610
01:15:01,189 --> 01:14:56,820
the wife claims to have seen a UFO

1611
01:15:03,580 --> 01:15:01,199
hovering over over the movie the movie

1612
01:15:06,620 --> 01:15:03,590
theater which is kind of interesting and

1613
01:15:11,330 --> 01:15:06,630
these I said that's a synchronicity well

1614
01:15:14,570 --> 01:15:11,340
it is and for the next few weeks

1615
01:15:16,580 --> 01:15:14,580
they were plagued by weird phone calls

1616
01:15:20,270 --> 01:15:16,590
which you know of course is a Men in

1617
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:20,280
Black trait and also Herbert's

1618
01:15:26,270 --> 01:15:24,449
son John had a peculiar visitor one day

1619
01:15:27,260 --> 01:15:26,280
it was a man and woman John actually

1620
01:15:30,250 --> 01:15:27,270
went and picked him up which was

1621
01:15:32,390 --> 01:15:30,260
interesting he got a phone call and

1622
01:15:33,950 --> 01:15:32,400
didn't seem to know the people but he

1623
01:15:36,020 --> 01:15:33,960
went picked him up anyways brought him

1624
01:15:38,390 --> 01:15:36,030
back to their house and it was a man and

1625
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:38,400
woman in black Nick I know you wrote the

1626
01:15:43,790 --> 01:15:42,090
The Woman in Black Book so as a man and

1627
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:43,800
woman in black and they were behaving

1628
01:15:47,060 --> 01:15:44,489
oddly

1629
01:15:50,930 --> 01:15:47,070
even in a sexual manner and they were

1630
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:50,940
asking John and John's wife as they

1631
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:52,800
perform sexual acts if they were doing

1632
01:15:58,280 --> 01:15:55,650
it correctly and this was all being

1633
01:16:01,970 --> 01:15:58,290
reported as part of this men in black

1634
01:16:03,979 --> 01:16:01,980
encounter so on a much smaller scale we

1635
01:16:07,820 --> 01:16:03,989
probably afraid of shades of grey now

1636
01:16:11,510 --> 01:16:07,830
we've got black there you go

1637
01:16:14,959 --> 01:16:11,520
on a much smaller scale not like Nix you

1638
01:16:17,419 --> 01:16:14,969
of a Roswell revelation if you will but

1639
01:16:19,820 --> 01:16:17,429
I did find some additional information

1640
01:16:21,379 --> 01:16:19,830
about the Herbert Hopkins case that I

1641
01:16:21,979 --> 01:16:21,389
actually haven't seen come out anywhere

1642
01:16:26,539 --> 01:16:21,989
at all

1643
01:16:28,939 --> 01:16:26,549
and I'd like to to tell the truth to a

1644
01:16:31,399 --> 01:16:28,949
fault if you will and I think it's okay

1645
01:16:33,889 --> 01:16:31,409
to go against the grain especially like

1646
01:16:36,259 --> 01:16:33,899
Nick was saying if it's new evidence and

1647
01:16:38,869 --> 01:16:36,269
it's it's you know a supported theory

1648
01:16:43,249 --> 01:16:38,879
it's not just a wild accusation and can

1649
01:16:46,429 --> 01:16:43,259
it move ufology forward so in 2008 the

1650
01:16:48,799 --> 01:16:46,439
nephew of Herbert Hopkins his name was

1651
01:16:53,359 --> 01:16:48,809
Howard he unfortunately passed away in

1652
01:16:55,699 --> 01:16:53,369
2012 at the age of 50 but in 2008 he is

1653
01:16:58,069 --> 01:16:55,709
also a local main author and he wrote

1654
01:16:59,779 --> 01:16:58,079
westerns and some horror stories and

1655
01:17:04,779 --> 01:16:59,789
even created a series of book called the

1656
01:17:08,659 --> 01:17:04,789
Chloe files and he wrote in a blog about

1657
01:17:10,869 --> 01:17:08,669
his uncle and telling the true story of

1658
01:17:15,829 --> 01:17:10,879
what really happened with his uncle and

1659
01:17:18,949 --> 01:17:15,839
he went on to say that Herbert suffered

1660
01:17:26,049 --> 01:17:18,959
from alcoholism and was prone to flights

1661
01:17:28,669 --> 01:17:26,059
of fancy and even though he enjoyed

1662
01:17:31,249 --> 01:17:28,679
sci-fi stories he was really poor at

1663
01:17:34,789 --> 01:17:31,259
writing them until he came up with this

1664
01:17:36,409 --> 01:17:34,799
men and black story and so Howard until

1665
01:17:38,959 --> 01:17:36,419
the day he died

1666
01:17:42,529 --> 01:17:38,969
claimed that Herbert story is completely

1667
01:17:44,569 --> 01:17:42,539
false and it was made up and you know to

1668
01:17:49,639 --> 01:17:44,579
get his to get Herbert's 15 minutes of

1669
01:17:52,669 --> 01:17:49,649
fame and also the encounters with John

1670
01:17:55,129 --> 01:17:52,679
and John's wife turns out in his opinion

1671
01:17:57,319 --> 01:17:55,139
that they were swinger couples that

1672
01:18:01,249 --> 01:17:57,329
would come and go often and could even

1673
01:18:02,779 --> 01:18:01,259
be seen performing sexual acts now with

1674
01:18:04,999 --> 01:18:02,789
that said Howard does have some

1675
01:18:08,869 --> 01:18:05,009
credibility here he was very close to

1676
01:18:10,579 --> 01:18:08,879
his uncle he gained no notoriety from

1677
01:18:12,919 --> 01:18:10,589
from disclosing this he just put it on

1678
01:18:15,709 --> 01:18:12,929
his personal blog which he did not

1679
01:18:18,589 --> 01:18:15,719
advertise and he actually lived with

1680
01:18:21,409 --> 01:18:18,599
Herbert during this timeframe

1681
01:18:24,499 --> 01:18:21,419
which is why his insight is what it is

1682
01:18:27,139 --> 01:18:24,509
so I checked down Dominique who

1683
01:18:31,939 --> 01:18:27,149
Dominique Hopkins who is Howard's wife

1684
01:18:34,099 --> 01:18:31,949
and I talked to her about you know her

1685
01:18:35,590 --> 01:18:34,109
thoughts on Howard's thoughts on Herbert

1686
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:35,600
and what happened and

1687
01:18:40,300 --> 01:18:37,610
does not side with her husband she

1688
01:18:42,310 --> 01:18:40,310
believes Herbert's story but but she

1689
01:18:44,440 --> 01:18:42,320
also loves her husband dearly and knows

1690
01:18:47,890 --> 01:18:44,450
that he's you know fastidious with his

1691
01:18:50,470 --> 01:18:47,900
research and didn't really fall to all

1692
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:50,480
things paranormal he didn't believe in

1693
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:52,010
psychics he didn't believe in the Loch

1694
01:18:56,170 --> 01:18:54,410
Ness monster but he did believe in UFOs

1695
01:18:58,720 --> 01:18:56,180
and he did believe in men in black but

1696
01:19:00,970 --> 01:18:58,730
wanted to point out that this story was

1697
01:19:02,770 --> 01:19:00,980
not in fact a men in black story but

1698
01:19:05,740 --> 01:19:02,780
that's pretty much it in a nutshell

1699
01:19:09,820 --> 01:19:05,750
what you know it's not unusual however

1700
01:19:12,940 --> 01:19:09,830
for members of a prety

1701
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:12,950
to come out against a you know a story

1702
01:19:19,420 --> 01:19:15,290
one that comes to mind is Betty

1703
01:19:21,900 --> 01:19:19,430
Andreasen where was it was it her her

1704
01:19:24,340 --> 01:19:21,910
son such that the whole thing was

1705
01:19:27,910 --> 01:19:24,350
concocted of course now Betty's daughter

1706
01:19:31,060 --> 01:19:27,920
on the other hand has had experiences of

1707
01:19:34,770 --> 01:19:31,070
her own then of course you have a good

1708
01:19:37,660 --> 01:19:34,780
old Adam Walters and his sensational UFO

1709
01:19:40,450 --> 01:19:37,670
photographs where somebody claims that

1710
01:19:44,110 --> 01:19:40,460
they actually found a miniature replica

1711
01:19:46,780 --> 01:19:44,120
of one of his craft a hidden away in the

1712
01:19:50,230 --> 01:19:46,790
attic wall which doesn't make any sense

1713
01:19:56,190 --> 01:19:50,240
whatsoever - to me and there's even as

1714
01:20:00,180 --> 01:19:56,200
some on the internet I've seen some

1715
01:20:02,740 --> 01:20:00,190
stories about the Travis Oh a Walton you

1716
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:02,750
know you had a drug-induced II for five

1717
01:20:08,950 --> 01:20:04,850
days yeah yeah something something to

1718
01:20:11,290 --> 01:20:08,960
that effect which I find very hard to to

1719
01:20:13,420 --> 01:20:11,300
believe I mean that people have hung out

1720
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:13,430
with the Travis Walton they're here over

1721
01:20:19,630 --> 01:20:16,250
the years i I've never heard any rumors

1722
01:20:22,150 --> 01:20:19,640
of him you know like abusing good drugs

1723
01:20:24,010 --> 01:20:22,160
or anything like that other innocently

1724
01:20:26,770 --> 01:20:24,020
the test that he had performed you know

1725
01:20:28,930 --> 01:20:26,780
after we had nothing in the system it's

1726
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:28,940
interesting you mentioned and Regan Rae

1727
01:20:33,220 --> 01:20:30,610
Fowler was you know obviously the

1728
01:20:34,900 --> 01:20:33,230
investigator there and he had wrote what

1729
01:20:38,820 --> 01:20:34,910
it was at three books I believe on the

1730
01:20:43,300 --> 01:20:38,830
on the incident incident yet but he's a

1731
01:20:45,550 --> 01:20:43,310
he is now residing in Maine and he

1732
01:20:47,690 --> 01:20:45,560
worked on the allagash abduction book as

1733
01:20:50,390 --> 01:20:47,700
well and

1734
01:20:52,250 --> 01:20:50,400
he this is kind of just some fYI info if

1735
01:20:54,710 --> 01:20:52,260
you will but he's now teaching a class

1736
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:54,720
down in Kennebunk mean that she can take

1737
01:20:58,730 --> 01:20:56,610
for just about a k-mer was forty five

1738
01:21:01,550 --> 01:20:58,740
sixty dollars but it's uh he'll teach

1739
01:21:03,740 --> 01:21:01,560
classes or courses on you know the

1740
01:21:05,210 --> 01:21:03,750
afterlife alien abduction all some

1741
01:21:06,950 --> 01:21:05,220
really cool stuff so it's interesting

1742
01:21:08,980 --> 01:21:06,960
he's a bit retired now you know he's

1743
01:21:11,870 --> 01:21:08,990
given over his work to a lot of people

1744
01:21:14,650 --> 01:21:11,880
but he still you know active in the

1745
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:14,660
community is pretty cool well he is a

1746
01:21:21,980 --> 01:21:17,970
certainly an astute researcher I mean

1747
01:21:23,890 --> 01:21:21,990
who's responsible for bringing out the

1748
01:21:29,150 --> 01:21:23,900
original details about the Kingman

1749
01:21:31,850 --> 01:21:29,160
Arizona go well Harry Drew who we've had

1750
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:31,860
on the program several times very

1751
01:21:37,340 --> 01:21:33,570
fascinating individual he doesn't call

1752
01:21:39,850 --> 01:21:37,350
them UFO crashes per se they were UFO

1753
01:21:42,860 --> 01:21:39,860
landings I mean they were kind of staged

1754
01:21:46,730 --> 01:21:42,870
events no sign that the object actually

1755
01:21:48,770 --> 01:21:46,740
crashed into the into the desert and per

1756
01:21:52,820 --> 01:21:48,780
se and of course he's got a lot of

1757
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:52,830
strange tales of occupants including the

1758
01:21:57,470 --> 01:21:54,810
two of them that were at as opposed to

1759
01:21:59,780 --> 01:21:57,480
the occupants of the one of the ships

1760
01:22:02,810 --> 01:21:59,790
that was locked up in a jail cell and

1761
01:22:06,530 --> 01:22:02,820
and completely disappeared a very very

1762
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:06,540
strange unusual fourteen type of uh you

1763
01:22:12,620 --> 01:22:10,050
know events now you know Tim Tim

1764
01:22:16,730 --> 01:22:12,630
Schwartz and I have our theory is of

1765
01:22:18,290 --> 01:22:16,740
course is that the Roswell UFO crashes

1766
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:18,300
some of these other events that took

1767
01:22:24,380 --> 01:22:21,090
place around the late 1940s and early

1768
01:22:27,380 --> 01:22:24,390
1950s where crafts that were developed

1769
01:22:29,750 --> 01:22:27,390
by the the Germans during the end of

1770
01:22:31,970 --> 01:22:29,760
World War two perhaps based on

1771
01:22:37,970 --> 01:22:31,980
information that was being a channeled

1772
01:22:40,010 --> 01:22:37,980
to them as early as the 1920s oh and and

1773
01:22:42,140 --> 01:22:40,020
the reason we've come to believe that is

1774
01:22:44,480 --> 01:22:42,150
is that first of all some of the UFO

1775
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:44,490
occupants were heard to speak in in

1776
01:22:50,210 --> 01:22:46,530
German during in some of these early UFO

1777
01:22:53,990 --> 01:22:50,220
contact cases in one particular incident

1778
01:22:57,440 --> 01:22:54,000
the boot print was left in the in the

1779
01:23:01,310 --> 01:22:57,450
soil and the the plaster of Paris cast

1780
01:23:03,730 --> 01:23:01,320
were made and the plaster of Paris

1781
01:23:06,410 --> 01:23:03,740
show what appears to be a swastika

1782
01:23:08,870 --> 01:23:06,420
imprinted in the the bottom of the boot

1783
01:23:10,670 --> 01:23:08,880
now why why would an alien from some

1784
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:10,680
other planet have a swastika there I

1785
01:23:17,570 --> 01:23:14,610
mean our contention is it points to you

1786
01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:17,580
know a project at paperclip and all

1787
01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:20,730
these of German the scientists and

1788
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:24,000
engineers that were brought into the the

1789
01:23:30,110 --> 01:23:28,080
country many of whom were a Nazi war

1790
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:30,120
criminals in fact even walter von braun

1791
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:34,410
was known to be a member of the SS and

1792
01:23:40,250 --> 01:23:37,290
they were cleared of all charges so that

1793
01:23:43,660 --> 01:23:40,260
they could come in and work on our early

1794
01:23:46,780 --> 01:23:43,670
rocket the program i mean and i think a

1795
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:46,790
part of the cover-up is that those

1796
01:23:51,620 --> 01:23:50,010
involved in the roswell crash and some

1797
01:23:53,350 --> 01:23:51,630
of these other incidents would rather

1798
01:23:55,820 --> 01:23:53,360
have you believe that they were

1799
01:23:57,610 --> 01:23:55,830
extraterrestrials and then admit that

1800
01:24:01,700 --> 01:23:57,620
this government might have been in

1801
01:24:09,710 --> 01:24:01,710
console with these german nazi

1802
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:09,720
scientists our theory okay anyway tell

1803
01:24:15,290 --> 01:24:12,290
us a little bit about the calabash

1804
01:24:18,620 --> 01:24:15,300
incident i mean that's a fascinating

1805
01:24:20,420 --> 01:24:18,630
case and it involves a more than one

1806
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:20,430
witness whether were they three or four

1807
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:22,320
men that were involved yeah there was

1808
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:24,210
there was four men involved and again

1809
01:24:29,900 --> 01:24:26,370
happened in the late seventies nineteen

1810
01:24:31,190 --> 01:24:29,910
seventy six to be exact and these four

1811
01:24:34,190 --> 01:24:31,200
friends two of them were actually

1812
01:24:36,380 --> 01:24:34,200
identical twin twin brothers and there's

1813
01:24:39,770 --> 01:24:36,390
been you know some theories about twins

1814
01:24:40,910 --> 01:24:39,780
and abductions but they were you know

1815
01:24:44,650 --> 01:24:40,920
all going to college together in

1816
01:24:47,900 --> 01:24:44,660
massachusetts and they came up to me to

1817
01:24:51,610 --> 01:24:47,910
do some fishing and and hang out for two

1818
01:24:55,430 --> 01:24:51,620
weeks a little break from school and

1819
01:24:59,240 --> 01:24:55,440
they saw a UFO the second night that

1820
01:25:01,280 --> 01:24:59,250
they were in at the allagash wilderness

1821
01:25:03,710 --> 01:25:01,290
waterway and there were other witnesses

1822
01:25:06,230 --> 01:25:03,720
there that also saw the UFO and then

1823
01:25:09,890 --> 01:25:06,240
about four or five six nights later they

1824
01:25:12,020 --> 01:25:09,900
had decided to go canoeing out on eagle

1825
01:25:14,689 --> 01:25:12,030
lake and they wanted to do some night

1826
01:25:17,870 --> 01:25:14,699
fishing and so they built a big

1827
01:25:20,989 --> 01:25:17,880
bonfire you know that stood you know

1828
01:25:24,679 --> 01:25:20,999
probably six seven eight feet flame wise

1829
01:25:27,939 --> 01:25:24,689
and they took off and they saw the UFO

1830
01:25:30,679 --> 01:25:27,949
again while they were out canoeing and

1831
01:25:33,259 --> 01:25:30,689
they finished their fishing and came

1832
01:25:35,209 --> 01:25:33,269
back they were gone for probably an

1833
01:25:37,580 --> 01:25:35,219
hours what they thought and when they

1834
01:25:40,850 --> 01:25:37,590
came back their big bonfire was only

1835
01:25:44,500 --> 01:25:40,860
embers and that seemed really odd to

1836
01:25:47,029 --> 01:25:44,510
them and they had vague memories of

1837
01:25:49,959 --> 01:25:47,039
potentially you know being abducted but

1838
01:25:54,350 --> 01:25:49,969
nothing was really concrete with them

1839
01:25:56,540 --> 01:25:54,360
until one of the gentlemen Jim Weiner he

1840
01:25:59,330 --> 01:25:56,550
went to a UFO conference he met with Ray

1841
01:26:02,299 --> 01:25:59,340
Fowler and let him know that he had been

1842
01:26:04,909 --> 01:26:02,309
having these vague memories mmm coming

1843
01:26:07,339 --> 01:26:04,919
through his dreams he was having aliens

1844
01:26:11,389 --> 01:26:07,349
poking and prodding him so we spoke to

1845
01:26:12,889 --> 01:26:11,399
Ray Fowler about it and Jim Wiener he

1846
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:12,899
disclosed that he began having seizures

1847
01:26:20,270 --> 01:26:17,130
as a result of these dreams and Fowler

1848
01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:20,280
agreed to help the four men with

1849
01:26:24,229 --> 01:26:22,320
hypnosis sessions and through those

1850
01:26:28,489 --> 01:26:24,239
hypnosis sessions is where the abduction

1851
01:26:30,709 --> 01:26:28,499
story came out and and it reads like a

1852
01:26:35,750 --> 01:26:30,719
classic abduction story you know like no

1853
01:26:39,259 --> 01:26:35,760
new no new things to cover there but

1854
01:26:43,939 --> 01:26:39,269
just recently Chuck Rach he is one of

1855
01:26:46,339 --> 01:26:43,949
the abduction abductees from the story

1856
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:46,349
just recently he has come out and said

1857
01:26:52,399 --> 01:26:50,010
that the abduction never happened and he

1858
01:26:53,959 --> 01:26:52,409
does claim that they did see UFOs but he

1859
01:26:57,560 --> 01:26:53,969
also claims that they used drugs and

1860
01:27:00,139 --> 01:26:57,570
drank and and and that they created the

1861
01:27:04,810 --> 01:27:00,149
story to hopefully make some money and

1862
01:27:07,370 --> 01:27:04,820
they didn't make very much money and the

1863
01:27:11,569 --> 01:27:07,380
three remaining believers if you will

1864
01:27:13,939 --> 01:27:11,579
had a falling-out with Chuck and Chuck

1865
01:27:16,909 --> 01:27:13,949
stopped appearing at conferences with

1866
01:27:18,770 --> 01:27:16,919
them and the other three gentlemen were

1867
01:27:21,409 --> 01:27:18,780
very if you've ever seen interviews with

1868
01:27:23,659 --> 01:27:21,419
them open minds website has a great

1869
01:27:25,909 --> 01:27:23,669
interview with the three gentlemen if

1870
01:27:27,129 --> 01:27:25,919
you want to check it out see it come

1871
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:27,139
across extremely since

1872
01:27:32,020 --> 01:27:29,570
year and Chuck RAC really comes across

1873
01:27:34,719 --> 01:27:32,030
as extremely hostile and he's actually

1874
01:27:37,389 --> 01:27:34,729
been banned from some UFO conventions

1875
01:27:40,899 --> 01:27:37,399
that he can't come on yeah I've got yeah

1876
01:27:42,580 --> 01:27:40,909
yeah so and I'm a little bit biased as

1877
01:27:46,770 --> 01:27:42,590
well the allagash abduction story was

1878
01:27:48,549 --> 01:27:46,780
like my first foray into you know UFO

1879
01:27:49,719 --> 01:27:48,559
stories you know I couldn't believe

1880
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:49,729
something like that happened to Maine

1881
01:27:52,600 --> 01:27:51,050
you know of course as a kid I heard

1882
01:27:53,830 --> 01:27:52,610
about Roswell and you know these

1883
01:27:55,060 --> 01:27:53,840
different things but wow there's this

1884
01:27:56,709 --> 01:27:55,070
thing that happened in Maine and you

1885
01:27:58,689 --> 01:27:56,719
know pretty major and it was covered on

1886
01:28:00,189 --> 01:27:58,699
unsolved mysteries and the four guys

1887
01:28:00,850 --> 01:28:00,199
were on the Joan Rivers show and you

1888
01:28:04,389 --> 01:28:00,860
know it was crazy

1889
01:28:06,100 --> 01:28:04,399
and so I have like a soft spot for and

1890
01:28:08,199 --> 01:28:06,110
when I you know read this about Chuck

1891
01:28:09,790 --> 01:28:08,209
and he was interviewed by a local paper

1892
01:28:12,669 --> 01:28:09,800
here and he was just tearing them apart

1893
01:28:15,189 --> 01:28:12,679
and the one place he was really tearing

1894
01:28:17,169 --> 01:28:15,199
them apart was the fire and the fire is

1895
01:28:19,449 --> 01:28:17,179
kind of the crux of the missing time

1896
01:28:21,159 --> 01:28:19,459
piece of it you know and if that goes

1897
01:28:23,799 --> 01:28:21,169
away it kind of crumbles the rest of the

1898
01:28:27,669 --> 01:28:23,809
story if you will you know so Chuck Rach

1899
01:28:28,779 --> 01:28:27,679
was saying that that fire made sense to

1900
01:28:31,089 --> 01:28:28,789
burn down in an hour

1901
01:28:32,830 --> 01:28:31,099
there was no missing time and you know

1902
01:28:34,509 --> 01:28:32,840
the biggest pieces of what they had in

1903
01:28:37,330 --> 01:28:34,519
there were maybe three inches in

1904
01:28:39,879 --> 01:28:37,340
diameter and the other gentlemen have

1905
01:28:41,589 --> 01:28:39,889
you know come out and and said that he

1906
01:28:43,509 --> 01:28:41,599
is incorrect and some of the pieces were

1907
01:28:45,699 --> 01:28:43,519
were actual logs and you know were

1908
01:28:47,649 --> 01:28:45,709
anywhere from 10 to 12 inches in

1909
01:28:49,959 --> 01:28:47,659
diameter and there's no way to burn down

1910
01:28:52,569 --> 01:28:49,969
you know but there's so much back and

1911
01:28:54,330 --> 01:28:52,579
forth it reminds me of the Rendlesham

1912
01:28:57,159 --> 01:28:54,340
forest case where those guys my gosh

1913
01:28:58,179 --> 01:28:57,169
inside now you know what I mean yeah and

1914
01:29:00,040 --> 01:28:58,189
it's too bad because all these people

1915
01:29:01,509 --> 01:29:00,050
are alive and it would be really great

1916
01:29:03,429 --> 01:29:01,519
if we could just you know I'll go up to

1917
01:29:07,060 --> 01:29:03,439
dinner and get along but you know such

1918
01:29:10,330 --> 01:29:07,070
as noise but when the allegation in

1919
01:29:12,969 --> 01:29:10,340
Siddhant here how much do the gentlemen

1920
01:29:15,729 --> 01:29:12,979
claim that they remember without being

1921
01:29:18,250 --> 01:29:15,739
hypnosis because yeah you know I I'm not

1922
01:29:20,589 --> 01:29:18,260
totally convinced on the cenotes thing I

1923
01:29:23,429 --> 01:29:20,599
mean they're you know psious obviously

1924
01:29:26,770 --> 01:29:23,439
but yeah one one can one could lead a

1925
01:29:29,949 --> 01:29:26,780
witness and it's not necessarily that

1926
01:29:32,339 --> 01:29:29,959
the Melissa Gibb but Hopkins or these

1927
01:29:36,609 --> 01:29:32,349
other researchers leading anybody

1928
01:29:38,409 --> 01:29:36,619
necessarily of income fully anyways

1929
01:29:40,569 --> 01:29:38,419
actually that's the word I was looking

1930
01:29:42,969 --> 01:29:40,579
for you know but

1931
01:29:45,159 --> 01:29:42,979
it's like Nick and I we get the bulk of

1932
01:29:47,049 --> 01:29:45,169
the the MIB cases because people know

1933
01:29:50,649 --> 01:29:47,059
that we're interested in it if you've

1934
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:50,659
had a hostile UFO encounter or abduction

1935
01:29:58,139 --> 01:29:53,570
you've got to go to dr. Jacobson if

1936
01:30:00,879 --> 01:29:58,149
you've had a inexperience that's a very

1937
01:30:04,839 --> 01:30:00,889
positive in nature you're probably going

1938
01:30:07,299 --> 01:30:04,849
to go to John max you know foundation so

1939
01:30:10,299 --> 01:30:07,309
you kind of you kind of drift towards

1940
01:30:12,810 --> 01:30:10,309
what is most relevant to you would you

1941
01:30:15,429 --> 01:30:12,820
say that seems to be the case Nick oh

1942
01:30:17,739 --> 01:30:15,439
yeah I think you're right you know I

1943
01:30:19,659 --> 01:30:17,749
mean we've both written three or four

1944
01:30:22,750 --> 01:30:19,669
books each on the man in black and

1945
01:30:24,159 --> 01:30:22,760
people do kind of gravitate to you know

1946
01:30:25,629 --> 01:30:24,169
the people who have written about the

1947
01:30:28,089 --> 01:30:25,639
subject you just search around and you

1948
01:30:30,849 --> 01:30:28,099
find names and but it's interesting that

1949
01:30:33,790 --> 01:30:30,859
you know with the whole Hopkins story is

1950
01:30:36,669 --> 01:30:33,800
that over the years I've probably got

1951
01:30:39,939 --> 01:30:36,679
seven or eight really weird man in black

1952
01:30:43,569 --> 01:30:39,949
cases which actually involve coins oh

1953
01:30:46,299 --> 01:30:43,579
and just like they'd be yeah and very

1954
01:30:48,939 --> 01:30:46,309
often it revolves around gold coins a

1955
01:30:51,129 --> 01:30:48,949
lot of strange cases linking the man in

1956
01:30:53,219 --> 01:30:51,139
black to gold and also to alchemy which

1957
01:30:55,929 --> 01:30:53,229
is you know this alleged ancient

1958
01:30:58,029 --> 01:30:55,939
tradition of changing what are called

1959
01:31:01,839 --> 01:30:58,039
base metals to precious metals like from

1960
01:31:03,669 --> 01:31:01,849
tin to gold and you know you and you

1961
01:31:06,219 --> 01:31:03,679
have the fact that the man in black

1962
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:06,229
maybe coin vanish so you know that's

1963
01:31:09,819 --> 01:31:07,570
kind of almost like an alchemical

1964
01:31:11,919 --> 01:31:09,829
because well so there's little snippets

1965
01:31:14,889 --> 01:31:11,929
like that from well you know in my

1966
01:31:17,619 --> 01:31:14,899
industry in synchronicities we've got

1967
01:31:20,469 --> 01:31:17,629
coins repeating themselves over and over

1968
01:31:23,709 --> 01:31:20,479
again in fact we had a lady on our

1969
01:31:25,989 --> 01:31:23,719
program and not too long ago she did a

1970
01:31:29,770 --> 01:31:25,999
book her name was Nancy a book called

1971
01:31:32,859 --> 01:31:29,780
the pennies from heaven and her husband

1972
01:31:35,159 --> 01:31:32,869
was it was deceased was leaving it you

1973
01:31:38,729 --> 01:31:35,169
know Petty's were showing up at very odd

1974
01:31:41,949 --> 01:31:38,739
places and at odd times in her her home

1975
01:31:44,889 --> 01:31:41,959
and I've had some experiences with the

1976
01:31:46,989 --> 01:31:44,899
with the coins that I've related in the

1977
01:31:49,419 --> 01:31:46,999
book and I've talked about on the air

1978
01:31:52,599 --> 01:31:49,429
and we don't have really that much time

1979
01:31:54,620 --> 01:31:52,609
left to or you know wander off and let

1980
01:31:57,290 --> 01:31:54,630
me tell a story because I could take up

1981
01:32:00,350 --> 01:31:57,300
a good suck up a good section of air

1982
01:32:03,260 --> 01:32:00,360
time Tim will you call me later and tell

1983
01:32:06,350 --> 01:32:03,270
me story okay well it's a book I'll give

1984
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:06,360
you a copy of the book that's that's

1985
01:32:14,180 --> 01:32:11,010
really our 430 page epic on philip k

1986
01:32:16,580 --> 01:32:14,190
dick that's the story but you know where

1987
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:16,590
we're coming down here i in fact i Tina

1988
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:18,690
has just sent us over the four-minute

1989
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:21,690
notice and now she's typing again so I

1990
01:32:28,640 --> 01:32:26,010
want to go around to Nick and to you and

1991
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:28,650
and get the all the information about

1992
01:32:32,210 --> 01:32:30,330
where people can contact you and what

1993
01:32:34,820 --> 01:32:32,220
you're working on now so no more why

1994
01:32:36,350 --> 01:32:34,830
don't you take it away tell us a quickly

1995
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:36,360
where people can find out more

1996
01:32:41,990 --> 01:32:38,570
information your website and so forth

1997
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:42,000
absolutely thank you uh UFOs over me

1998
01:32:46,340 --> 01:32:44,610
calm that's where you can buy the book

1999
01:32:49,160 --> 01:32:46,350
and you know read all the the stuff that

2000
01:32:51,140 --> 01:32:49,170
I write about new book coming out I

2001
01:32:53,330 --> 01:32:51,150
believe it's going to be for 2018 but

2002
01:32:55,430 --> 01:32:53,340
I'm trying to push for 2017 and that's

2003
01:32:58,670 --> 01:32:55,440
otherworldly encounters UFOs over Maine

2004
01:33:02,420 --> 01:32:58,680
vol 2 and you can find me on Facebook at

2005
01:33:04,220 --> 01:33:02,430
nomar's Levesque author well I'm really

2006
01:33:06,950 --> 01:33:04,230
glad you joined us tonight you have a

2007
01:33:09,530 --> 01:33:06,960
wealth of information and even though it

2008
01:33:12,110 --> 01:33:09,540
main male ranked third in the country as

2009
01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:12,120
far as UFO incidents go you know most

2010
01:33:15,830 --> 01:33:13,530
people don't know about them and Nick

2011
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:15,840
your turn how do people find out about

2012
01:33:21,980 --> 01:33:20,130
your continuing research efforts I will

2013
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:21,990
have a blog which I update most days

2014
01:33:29,510 --> 01:33:25,050
which the address is Nick Redfern 14

2015
01:33:31,730 --> 01:33:29,520
blog spot.com and the new book Roswell

2016
01:33:34,250 --> 01:33:31,740
UFO conspiracy you can get from Amazon

2017
01:33:36,710 --> 01:33:34,260
or or recruit Barnes & Noble and I

2018
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:36,720
should be speaking on the book at

2019
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:38,970
Roswell for the 70th anniversary on the

2020
01:33:44,990 --> 01:33:43,290
weekend of the the 3rd of June 2nd Nady

2021
01:33:49,480 --> 01:33:45,000
actually they actually let you run the

2022
01:33:55,050 --> 01:33:52,120
and my bang a couple of padded boxing

2023
01:34:04,240 --> 01:33:59,110
alright and on either way and of course

2024
01:34:10,320 --> 01:34:04,250
I will be down in Pine Bush this weekend

2025
01:34:12,940 --> 01:34:10,330
the 20th of May 2017 at the Pine Bush

2026
01:34:14,860 --> 01:34:12,950
festival and I guess Travis Waltons

2027
01:34:17,580 --> 01:34:14,870
supposed to be there and then the

2028
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:17,590
Zimmerman and that should be quite an

2029
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:22,010
event including parade in the the floats

2030
01:34:27,910 --> 01:34:25,250
and the whole alien hamburgers and what

2031
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:27,920
have you and then of the following a

2032
01:34:31,990 --> 01:34:29,810
weekend there will be a three philip k

2033
01:34:34,540 --> 01:34:32,000
dick film festival here in New York

2034
01:34:37,750 --> 01:34:34,550
which you can look up on the internet

2035
01:34:41,530 --> 01:34:37,760
and Tim once you agree it was a great

2036
01:34:42,820 --> 01:34:41,540
show this evening we just pushed and

2037
01:34:47,710 --> 01:34:42,830
shoved and got some great information

2038
01:34:49,630 --> 01:34:47,720
out of our guests and as always you know

2039
01:34:53,380 --> 01:34:49,640
we enjoy hearing from our listeners and

2040
01:34:56,200 --> 01:34:53,390
you can find us on youtube at mr. UFO

2041
01:34:58,450 --> 01:34:56,210
secret files and Tina take it away and

2042
01:35:00,880 --> 01:34:58,460
thank you Peter and thank you Carol and

2043
01:35:03,910 --> 01:35:00,890
thank you Tim and thank you our guests

2044
01:35:10,689 --> 01:35:03,920
for the evening tonight oh thank god

2045
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:13,489
you've been listening to exploring the

2046
01:35:20,750 --> 01:35:17,010
bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley and

2047
01:35:23,659 --> 01:35:20,760
Tails walks Taking Back the Night by

2048
01:35:26,239 --> 01:35:23,669
jetting nonstop above the cosmos in

2049
01:35:29,990 --> 01:35:26,249
search of a truly bizarre and totally

2050
01:35:33,500 --> 01:35:30,000
unexplained if you as they're cold

2051
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:33,510
Earth Day nights at 7 p.m. Pacific 10

2052
01:35:40,820 --> 01:35:38,850
p.m. on the kco our digital radio for

2053
01:35:43,910 --> 01:35:40,830
more information on exploring the

2054
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:43,920
bizarre and host Timothy Beckley and

2055
01:35:49,610 --> 01:35:46,410
since wharfs check out their kco our

2056
01:35:55,670 --> 01:35:49,620
digital radio network follow their